PX-560 (or PX-360) vs PX-S1000 keybed

[Rudolph R-N R]

Hey, I'm sure many of you have had the chance to try out the new Casio PX-S1000, or plan to soon.  There's been alot of hullabaloo about how good this new board is IN COMPARISON TO existing 88 note Casio boards because of the new action and new piano sound.

 

For myself the piano sound is not as important, I supplement my sounds with my iPad, but the action is something you just have to live with.  Piano Man Chuck did a nice little comparison between the PX-560 and the PX-S1000, and while there was a lot of useful information, he didn't go into a direct comparison of the two as regards the feel of the keybed.  I don't have access to a PX-560, so I was hoping that there would be some of you who would share their conclusions:

 

? Is it a harder or softer touch?  To me it felt relatively hard, but I'm used to semi-weighted

? How do these two compare for dynamic expression,  able to convey the many nuances from soft to loud?

? Finger to ear connection?  A bit intangible, this is how it feels under your fingertips, a bit similar to dynamic expression.

? Is the pressure needed consistent from the front of the key to the back?   On the PX-S1000, the last half inch of the keys are much harder to press.

? The return?  This determines in large part how quickly you can play a new note.

 

I'm considering the PX-560 because it's also super light weight, and in many ways would be a step up from the PX-S1000/3000, but the quality of the action is very important to me.

 

Piano Man Chuck You Tube comparison of PX-S1000 and PX-560

[Jokeyman123]

I can't compare directly as I have not played the PX-S new series but play the PX560, PX350 and an older PX575.

 

Having recently played a Baldwin spinet acoustic piano-I was surprised at how much nicer I liked the feel of the PX560!  The 560 and 350 feel pretty much identical-a good long throw with resistance more like a grand than a spinet or upright-that is a little heavier but not tiringly so (that is a word?) I can't imagine the newer actions being any better-maybe a bit faster in response which I suspect as the keys look shorter but I may be wrong there. Must be at least as good, possibly better quieting of the keybed?  I love the actions on my older Privias, I can play classical pieces, jazz improv and comping no problem for an hour or more with no ear or finger fatigue, well no more than an acoustic. Finger to ear is very realistic IMO on all 3. If you are after piano technique, I don' think you will be disappointed in the PX560. My only difficulty with digitals-Privias and any others I've played-even though the dynamic range is excellent, it still seems "compressed" to me compared to the real thing-but then the dynamic range of a good grand piano is pretty difficult to duplicate due to the expansiveness of the mechanics involved-huge soundboard, giant steel strings and wooden keys plus a massive cabinet are hard to duplicate for the player-but the Privias come as close as I've played for digitals.

[Rudolph R-N R]

Oops, posted on an off day apparently.

 

@ Jokeyman, once again, thank you for your input!  Yeah, I imagine most decent digital pianos have better actions than most acoustic pianos- but man oh man, a great acoustic piano action, accompanied by a great tone, is magical.  I played a wonderful Steinway D at a party years ago, it reminded me why a great action can make such a big difference.  And yeah, the compressed sound of a DP can't compare to an AP, but if your sound is halfway decent, then you can make up for that to some extent with the speakers you use and judicious use of reverb and eq.  I've got a sweet setup at the moment, been using a Klipsch KMC3 stereo BT speaker, which I place right behind the keyboard (65 watts RMS,  2 2" tweeters and 1 5 1/4" woofer, it sounds killer, even on piano, which is the hardest instrument to amplify.  I supplement that with a QSC K8.2 speaker, esp for the low end, another speaker known to do piano well).

 

The PX-S1000 is available in most Guitar Centers and other major music retailers, so it'd probably be possible for you to try one out.  I played my Nord Stage Classic 88 last night for the first in ages, and being used to semi-weighted, it felt heavy and hard to play at first.  I made a point of relaxing and not playing as quickly or automatically, keeping my hand relaxed until the last moment and then rolling in a wave kind of gesture from the wrist to the tips of the fingers.  Dancing on the keybed is what that felt like!  

 

Today the keys don't feel as heavy, so it may just be something I have to get used to.  I imagine the reason people like weighted action is that it gives you something to push against, which makes dynamic playing more natural, being able to reliably play from super soft to super loud and all the gradients in-between.  Though some of the better semi-weighted key beds allow this as well to some extent.

 

Yes, I'll go back soon, now that I'm playing a weighted action again, to see if I like the PX-S1000 better.  

 

It's a shame though- my Nord Stage Classic 88 is a hell of a board- it's just too heavy for me these days, I play outside alot, and it doesn't have an audio in, which makes it more complex and fussy to play my iPad with it.  Oh well, am really enjoying it for what it is- a great keyboard I own!

[Luciano Medoni]

Hi piano guys, I own a PX560 and yesterday went into a musical instruments shop.

Played 10 minutes on a PX-S1000. Key action is the same for both instruments.

I noticed no difference ... even the piano sound is the same.

I like more my px560 because you always know where you are (settings) ... on a S1000 or S3000 you have no display ...

 

enjoy music

kisses from Italy

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

That's right-gave up bringing my TS-12/MR76 around-50 pounds for a 76-key piano action has always been too much.  After studying several PX=S videos-it looks like I was wrong about the key-length-the keys look identical to the PX560-just lodged in a much more compact body. I literally can carry either the PX350 or PX560 under my arm wherever I need to take it, amazing! How Casio could compress the design like this-and keep that same action, I'll have to try one out. And weighted action-with practice, I can play most organ riffs as well as on the original Hammonds or other spring-action keys with some adapting my technique. The PX560 keys are so smooth-glisses are not a problem and since I adjusted the ley action just a tiny bit-it is even more responsive to fast single-note passages-like "Angry Young Man's" intro by Billy Joel-also better now for drum fills. My keys were kicking just a hair too much-I added some felt to the blue felt strip on top of the key backs-fantastic difference. 

[Joe Muscara]

7 hours ago, Luciano Medoni said:

Hi piano guys, I own a PX560 and yesterday went into a musical instruments shop.

Played 10 minutes on a PX-S1000. Key action is the same for both instruments.

I noticed no difference ... even the piano sound is the same.

I like more my px560 because you always know where you are (settings) ... on a S1000 or S3000 you have no display ...

 

enjoy music

kisses from Italy

 

 

You may think the PX-560 and the PX-S1000 feel the same, but mechanically they are different. There is an image out there from Casio that shows the PX-160 (same as PX-560) action next to the PX-S1000 action and they are clearly different.

 

Also, the piano sound is different.

 

All that being said, if you're happy with your PX-560, that's cool. 

 

One more thing, the PX-S3000 does have a display, so you do always know where you are. It's not a color touch screen, but it's a good display.

[Jokeyman123]

Can you post a link to the pictures of the internal action of the new PX-S series? I can't seem to find any Googling around. I've also discovered an interesting discussion and diagram of the (I think) original tri-sensor action as in the PX350/PX5s which to my surprise-seems to show that the 3 sensors are being detected from underneath rather than on top! Thus the hammer is actually creating the piano response, not the keytop, unlike any other older design I've come across. I never noticed this and shows why the Privia action responds so close to an acoustic. Look through this link....

 

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1989014/Hammer Delay Key Simulation ne.html

[Jokeyman123]

I think I just managed to find out how the new tri-sensor action is different-the older tri-sensor design has the 3 sensors on top-and these contact under the key as most keyboards are designed. The picture in the above link is showing a different approach-as you will see in that link-the 3 sensors are now contacted by the hammer-up underneath where these used to be-a subtle but definite different approach...is this it? This would explain how the key action might feel quite a bit different. Why didn't this happen then on the PX560 flagship model? Or is it there, I haven't checked mine, never bothered to look. The PX350 has the 3 sensors on top as I recall. Anybody? 

[Brad Saucier]

Okay, we need to be clear so no one gets confused (like me), you are not talking about the newest hammer actions in the new PX-S and CDP-S models.  Those are totally different.  You are talking about actions prior to those.  The PX-350, PX-5S and PX-560 all use the "Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action II".  This design has all 3 sensors on top, not on bottom.  The key contacts the sensor, not the counterweight below.  The previous design to that was the first tri-sensor design, called "Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action", used on PX-330 generation. That one had two sensors below and one on top.  

[Jokeyman123]

Right, I got that. Then what is the disagrm showing in the link I posted? The posters were not clear exactly as to what this one is-all I can tell is that it is a Casio tri-sensor of some sort-definitely not the tri-sensor on the PX-350 etc. but it looks to have 3 sensors on the bottom, struck by the hammer. Which is that? I thought this might possibly be what the new action looks like inside-for the PX-S1000/3000. According to these posts on Pianoworld, the hammer hits 3 sensors from underneath, at least in this diagram, whatever it is. 

[Brad Saucier]

That Pianoworld link is from 2012. That was when the Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II (diagram below) was a new thing, so they were comparing it to the older action of the day.  All of the PX-*50 and PX-*60 generation models use the Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II.  The diagram they posted of it is not entirely accurate.  The other diagram they posted is the older tri-sensor action.   

  

 

[Rudolph R-N R]

12 hours ago, Luciano Medoni said:

Hi piano guys, I own a PX560 and yesterday went into a musical instruments shop.

Played 10 minutes on a PX-S1000. Key action is the same for both instruments.

I noticed no difference ... even the piano sound is the same.

I like more my px560 because you always know where you are (settings) ... on a S1000 or S3000 you have no display ...

 

enjoy music

kisses from Italy

 

 

Luciano, thank you for the comparison.  I suspect that I'd get used to either keybed.  I do wish the PX-S3000 had MIDI ports

[Joe Muscara]

15 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Can you post a link to the pictures of the internal action of the new PX-S series? I can't seem to find any Googling around.

I think it was on those casio-intl.com pages for the PX-S models, but I'm not seeing it there. Maybe they removed it from wherever I saw it. However, I did download it for my own reference and thus still have the link in my history.

 

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks Joe. So the key is shorter as is the fulcrum (weighted) arm-and the counterweight looks bigger. Casio also made the entire action lower from base to keytop. Similar design which I really liked in the first place-slightly different "geometry". Looks like the keystroke "depth" or "throw" should be about the same as the Tri-sensor II. This doesn't show where the sensors are. I have to guess these will be in roughly the same place as the older tri-sensors. This might help some here decide about upgrading or getting their first. I am waiting for the 3000 since I like having a big database of tones and rhythms to play with.

 

To Luciano-did the newer action feel any "faster" compared to the 560? With shorter keys (but heavier fulcrum I think from seeing the picture Joe posted) I am guessing it may have a slightly faster key response-more like an upright than the longer keys of a grand?

 

Years ago, I wrote a term paper in college where (I was already performing but hadn't declared my major in music yet) I envisioned, more like the European model, where every family could have a piano or similar instrument in the house-would be affordable and sound good enough for any style of music. I thought that could be a way for families to do something creative together-and back then alot of nasty stuff was happening-just like now somewhat just looked a little different. That was in 1971. Looks like because of companies like Casio in particular, we are finally there, where anyone who wants to create music, learn piano can do so. 

 

I had met several European musicians back then who were a little surprised that we in the US (generally) did not have access to more musical instruments and teachers-well they had a jump on us there I have to admit-must have been nice to wander around Europe in the 1700s (barring disease and wars!) and find a Bach just about anywhere...and the oriental and middle eastern musicians seemed to think music was pretty important too way back, the Italians had operas that involved thousands of people, entire villages before our arenas, Joe Greene (Guiseppe Verdi) was so popular the people wanted him to run for president but he had better ideas. 

 

What is wonderful about all this-we performers/students and teachers now have such an excellent choice of DPs-and other instruments- that no matter which one I play, the differences are so subtle, and so high-quality that it's like (on a more economic level!) gee what should I get? A Bechstein, Steinway, Yamaha, Bosendorfer or? Except the Casios cost a little but less...well maybe more than a little bit! In the old days it was more like-which piano is less out of tune, has broken or cigarette burn keys, and does the action feel like mattress springs or marshmallows!? And will I be crippled after playing it for 10 minutes, so as an old timer, its like being a kid in a candy store in 2019, I'm grateful I lived long enough to see it. 

[Luciano Medoni]

17 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

To Luciano-did the newer action feel any "faster" compared to the 560? With shorter keys (but heavier fulcrum I think from seeing the picture Joe posted) I am guessing it may have a slightly faster key response-more like an upright than the longer keys of a grand? 

 

 

To Jokeyman123 - my hands on the Keys told me px S1000 = PX560 about action ... but really cannot tell action S1000 feels faster ... good action anyway !!!