6 year old learning piano - which Casio?

[Anders Nilsson]

Hi!

 

This is my first post after joining a few days ago, please bear with me!

 

Anyway, my (soon) 6 year old son has taken piano lessons for half a year. Now, our Yamaha PS-55 early

80's arranger with 49 non weighted keys is somewhat a limitation is his learning. So, I need a real piano.

 

Kawai KDP110, CA48, ES8, Roland FP90, HP60x, Korg GS-1 are all very nice, and the KDP110 is actually

very cheap for its' great sound. Except for the KDP110, this comes at a price.

 

But, my son likes to play with the cheesy arranger rhythms and a console piano is heavy and bulky.

I've spent dozens of commuting hours glued to Youtube and the more I watch, the more indecisive I get.

 

I like Casio as a brand since I bought my FX-502P in 1980, this influences my thinking a bit. For me, they

stand for no-nonsense performance and adequate quality for home use.

 

Now, a certain somewhat elderly YT reviewer fancies the Casios and has demonstrated what they can do.

Some things that bother me is the key action noise and the somewhat harsh sounding piano. Though I

personally MUCH prefer a slightly raw sound to a sickeningly mellow one.

 

Here in China were I live, online prices are roughly (from several vendors):

 

Model                    USD

 

PX-350                  550

PX-5S                    520

KDP110                 620

PX-360                  900

PX-560                 1100

CA48                     1500

ES8                        1800

FP90                      2200

 

I feel that the PX-350 is probably good enough for a child beginner and that if I want to move up I should

stretch to the PX-560. The Kawai CA48 (called CA28 in China) has wooden keys and sounds fantastic but

maybe not necessary? Also very heavy. The price for the PX-350 is with stand and 3 pedal unit. I don't like

the Px-160 sound but the 770 and 870 would do.

 

Please tell me your thoughts on the 350, hit or miss for beginners?

 

Can anyone comment on the KDP110 and CA48? I feel Kawai does very good pianos.

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

Welcome to the forums!  I'm going to throw in one more choice, the all new Casio PX-S3000, if it's available in China.  It replaces the PX-350 in Casio's lineup.  Search "PX-S3000" on YouTube and have a listen at some demos and reviews.  I think I would choose that one based on everything you describe.  If you have any questions about it feel free to ask here. 

[Anders Nilsson]

33 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

Welcome to the forums!  I'm going to throw in one more choice, the all new Casio PX-S3000, if it's available in China.  It replaces the PX-350 in Casio's lineup.  Search "PX-S3000" on YouTube and have a listen at some demos and reviews.  I think I would choose that one based on everything you describe.  If you have any questions about it feel free to ask here. 

Hi Brad!

 

Thanks for the suggestion! the PX-S1000 and PX-S3000 are available here in China. However, the cost is almost same 

as the PX-360 and PX-560, respectively. My understanding is that the newer boards have an improved sound engine

or at least improved samples, but they lose the wonderful color touch screen.

 

The reason for looking at the 350 is the low cost for its' performance. If I ante up for the PX-S3000 or the PX-560, which

one is better for piano? I heard that the PX-S3000 has a new shortened key action, does it affect playing?

 

Which are the drawbacks of the 560?

 

Another beginner's question - is it feasible to hook the keyboards up to an old analog stereo, like 2x40 watt or so,

or do pianos require montiors or stage speakers to sound good? I'm talking home use.

[Joe Muscara]

It seems that few, if any, are bothered by the shortened key action on the new Casio models. The new Privia models also have a better piano sound than any of the previous generation.

 

Is the CDP-S350 model available in China? That might be another option if so. the PX-S3000 has a better and more editable piano tone, but the key action on both is similar. The PX-S3000 also has a better built-in sound system, among a few other features that the CDP-S350 does not have. But, they have a similar number of other tones and built-in rhythms as well as space to create your own.

 

Both should be good enough with the built-in sound system for home use is most cases. However, the CDP-S350 has a headphone output that can be connected to an external sound system, and the PX-S3000 has 1/4" line outs for this. To connect to a stereo, you might need cables with the right adapters or connectors on each end, but it can be done. Personally I'd recommend trying the keyboard first and then deciding if you need further amplification.

[denj]

Casio is one of the best brands for me. When I started learning to play the piano I checked reviews about best keyboard for beginners 2019 here https://bluebuzzmusic.com/best-keyboard-for-beginners/ to make the right choice. I bought Casio SA-77 44-Key Mini Personal Keyboard and totally satisfied with my purchase. It all depends on your budget of course.

[Anders Nilsson]

Hi!

 

PX-S1000 is available for about USD900, the PX870 is USD800, PX-S3000 is about USD1100,

same as the PX-560. CDP-350 might be available online but I've never seen it in a store.

 

I can tell You that here in Shanghai, Yamaha has an absolute stranglehold on distribution with 

Kawai sucking up the rest. Roland does exist in specialty shops. Korg is something you really

need to seek out.

 

This weekend, i stumpled upon a rather serious looking  shop having the:

 

AP-470 for USD930

AP-700 for USD 1598

 

in stock, really keen on one of these. The AP-700 has the major advantage of dedicated LINE IN/OUT and

5-pin MIDI. This for me is reason enough to select it over the AP-470. I know that the PX-350 would 

probably do for a beginner and has similar connectivity but the AP-700 sounds _great_ in the YT

videos I've found.

 

Can anyone comment on the AP-700 sound quality and speaker system? I find so many downputting

comments on Casio that it is difficult to make an opinion on the rarer models. I've played around

with the AP-270 in a store and it sounds great but weak speaker system and no connectivity makes

me wary.

 

The same store which has the AP-700 also has the GP300 on display and it sounded awesome. For almost

twice the price of the AP-700, it better do that.

 

I'm really into the AP-700 but trouble is I can't test drive it before purchase. It should share innards with the GP300

and the AP-270 sounds great in quality, just lacking volume so I think I'll take a chance but any input is welcome.

But 2x30 Watt sound promising.

 

Lastly, I can get the China version (CA28) of the Kawai CA48 for same price as the AP-700 and the Kawai has wooden

action but the Casio seems to have great sound and much better hardware in/outputs. Am I an idiot if I go for the 

plastic action in the Casio?

[Jokeyman123]

My older PX350 is a fantastic piano-, holding up well-look at some of the pros on Youtube playing classical and jazz advanced pieces and decide for yourself, and since it is an older model you may find a real money-saving price somewhere. it also has midi din and usb connection options for computers or other hardware. The action is more like a grand piano than a spinet-a little more resistant than spinet acoustics I've played.  I did opt for PX560-again another great piano but has alot more features you may not need for a student, but same action. I've played uprights, grands and spinets, and many digitals-there may be some quieter (and more expensive) digital key actions-but from what I see on the newer PX-s series, Casio has perfected that as well-the key actions seem super quiet from what I have heard online.  I have "modded" my PX350 and it is as quiet as the new s1000/3000, but I had to work at it a bit although it wasn't terrible new-I am pretty picky, have sensitive hearing.

 

I would go with a Casio PX or CGP, even a newer CDP over many others because-unlike the APs-are much lighter and easier to move around-if you wish to move to different areas in your home or away-I would think the AP models are much heavier but if that is no issue than I would try the Casios first- anyway and read and listen to all the reviews-from here and from piano and keyboard user groups. And you will get great support-right here.

[Anders Nilsson]

Ok, thanks everyone who has responded. Last month has been hard on my nerves. Anyway, tonight we finally decided to go for the AP-700 and ordered it and paid the deposit. Delivery including setup is scheduled for this weekend. I really thought long and hard of the PX-350 or the PX-560, but I feel that $1600 for the 700 is too good a price to pass up. Moving around  the apartment will not happen - the piano will have a reserved space - and if I move to another location the piano will just be another furniture item. If my son needs a gigging piano I will buy another, e. g. the PX-350 or the PX-560.

 

You might wonder about the prices I quote, but it's obvious that Casio and Yamaha has local production and this pushes their prices down. I wanted to try the Kawai ES8 but it's only a grey import item in China. the Korg Grand Stage 88 is fantastic but the only one I saw was in a shop that wanted more than three grand which is a ripoff. The Korg Havian 30 was a hundred bucks cheaper than the AP-700 but i found the sound lacking. Not bad, just inspired.

 

And I've paid maybe a grand up on the PX-350 but that gives me a custom made sound system for the piano plus I get better samples and my personal vanity is gently stroked by that stately looking cabinet. But wifey permitting I still might buy a 350 or 5S to play around with since my job schedule with heavy travelling (by train) rather calls for a slab keyboard.

[Anders Nilsson]

On 5/6/2019 at 11:08 PM, Jokeyman123 said:

My older PX350 is a fantastic piano-, holding up well-look at some of the pros on Youtube playing classical and jazz advanced pieces and decide for yourself, and since it is an older model you may find a real money-saving price somewhere. it also has midi din and usb connection options for computers or other hardware. The action is more like a grand piano than a spinet-a little more resistant than spinet acoustics I've played.  I did opt for PX560-again another great piano but has alot more features you may not need for a student, but same action. I've played uprights, grands and spinets, and many digitals-there may be some quieter (and more expensive) digital key actions-but from what I see on the newer PX-s series, Casio has perfected that as well-the key actions seem super quiet from what I have heard online.  I have "modded" my PX350 and it is as quiet as the new s1000/3000, but I had to work at it a bit although it wasn't terrible new-I am pretty picky, have sensitive hearing.

 

I would go with a Casio PX or CGP, even a newer CDP over many others because-unlike the APs-are much lighter and easier to move around-if you wish to move to different areas in your home or away-I would think the AP models are much heavier but if that is no issue than I would try the Casios first- anyway and read and listen to all the reviews-from here and from piano and keyboard user groups. And you will get great support-right here.

UPDATE: After receiving my AP-700 (and writing a review in the Celviano forum), I felt it would be nice if I could practice a little myself. Now, routinely being away from home Sunday night to Friday afternoon doesn't lend itself well to piano practice. However, I found that there are still a few copies of the PX-350 available on the net here in China, selling for about $400. CS-67 and SP-33 are extra. But for this price and weight it is too good an offer to pass up.

 

Yes, I know that Casio has just released the PX-S3000, but it is double the money and I just spent way more than intended on the AP-700. So, a PX-350 it is. Have had it for a week and played a little each night in the hotel room. 15 minutes a day is better than one hour in the weekend.

 

Key action is ok, though the AP-700 feels more stable. Sound is......hmmmmm.....well, good enough for $400. Honestly, I've tried the Yamaha P-125 and wasn't impressed, very plastic feeling and harsh tone during forte (like, really forte). The 350 piano tones sound like they are just different EQ settings on the same base sampling. I would happily pay extra for an upgraded sound chip though this is of course never going to happen.

 

But for an absolute beginner trying to play "Old McDonald" or similar pieces it's great. Low weight means I can drag it, transport it, and store it. And if someone smashes it up by accident or it gets stolen it's not the end of the world (this is after all China).

 

And I have to mention a funny thing - while searching TaoBao for a seller I found a local store that manufactures its' own version of the SP-33. They have taken a three pedal action, supporting half pedal, and put it in a small floor box just like the new one for the PX-S3000 and wired it like a SP-33 with the right connector. So next purchase will be such a box so I can have three pedals without having to use the console stand. Crafty people.

[Jokeyman123]

Hmmm....the AP700 I believe has wood keys? It would (no pun) definitely feel more like a real piano. TaoBao...I'll have to take a look, I never got the 3-pedal Casio SP-33-I use a single piano-style foot pedal. Not supposed to post vendors directly here so I won't ask, but can this be orded online for delivery to the US? I have been a frequent Aliexpress buyer, and Alibab for hard-to-find stuff in the past.

[Brad Saucier]

"GP" series Celviano Grand Hybrid models are the only ones with wood keys.  

[Anders Nilsson]

20 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Hmmm....the AP700 I believe has wood keys? It would (no pun) definitely feel more like a real piano. TaoBao...I'll have to take a look, I never got the 3-pedal Casio SP-33-I use a single piano-style foot pedal. Not supposed to post vendors directly here so I won't ask, but can this be orded online for delivery to the US? I have been a frequent Aliexpress buyer, and Alibab for hard-to-find stuff in the past.

Hi!

 

Not sure if they ship to the US, but if you go to TaoBao.com and enter "卡西欧SP33" you will find it quite easily. they sometimes filter your results depending on where your IP address is from so not sure if you see it. By the way, 卡西欧 is Ka Shi Ou in Chinese in case you wonder.