Best way to loop samples without them "clicking".

[Chas]

Hi all,

 

I know it's very quiet in the XW world these days, so I am not sure how many people are left to offer advice. Anyhow, I have dug out my G1 after not using it for some time, and have started using it for its sampling features. I am also using the Casio Data Editor to do a lot of the programming/ transfer samples/ transfer data etc.

 

One thing I am trying to do, is use it as a traditional sampler, i.e. so that I can multi sample a classic synth wave, apply it across the keyboard, and have it loop the samples when a key is held down. I have managed to do all three of these tasks, however, when it comes to setting a loop point I cannot seem to get it to do so without noticeable clicks/ pops when it loops. No matter where I set the loop point in the Data Editor, I can reduce the clicks/ pops, but cannot get a seamless loop to occur.

 

I recall reading somewhere that it is better to prepare/ trim samples offline via an editor such as Audacity, and then load them into the G1. I have Audacity and I am quite familiar with using it, so can anyone advise what I need to do to a sample to get a seamless loop point?

 

Just to sum up, I am trying to sample sounds that will play when a key is pressed, and will loop continuously if/ when the key is held down without popping or clicking during the looping stage.

 

Hope someone can help!

[Jokeyman123]

Not sure what is happening with your sample, but if the release of the sample is very abrupt, cut off quickly at the end, this could cause a click on each key press, when the sample has to repeat. A little rusty with my sampling skills, but you may want to create a short "tail" or gradual fade at the end of the sample and see if that works. A click can also occur if your attack and decay or sustain part of the envelope is not set right-if the decay is too fast before the sound reaches its sustain part of the loop, and if your endpoints are not exactly matched as far as levels, could be another source. Yes, Audacity will give you a better visual presentation of your sample you will be able to see exactly where the click is occuring, and modify it and save it. Plus, if there is wasted empty space before or after the sample, you will be able to "truncate" those portions of dead sound to save space with the sample. let me know how you do, I've done alot of sampling for my old PX575, and learned on the older even Korg DSS-1 years ago. 

[Brad Saucier]

There are several methods to looping a sample with no audible click.  I have yet to find a one-size-fits-all approach. It all depends on the sample type and your desired end result. Is it a basic synth wave that doesn't evolve and change over time?  I would use the tuned loop method on that.  Works great for basic waves.  That's easy to do using the loop point editor on the XW-G1 itself.  For a tuned loop, you basically trim the loop as short as possible where it still maintains the original timbre and pitch of the sampled waveform.  On some waves, you can get it down to a few cycles of the wave and still sound original. 

[- T -]

Chas

 

Glitchless sample loops require what is known as "crossfading" of the loop point in the sustain portion of the sample's ADSR envelope.  This is a process that downward tapers the volume of the loop end point, and overlaps it with an upward taper of the volume of the loop start point.  When done properly, the loop start/end point is essentially undetectable to the human ear.  The hardware samplers of some decades ago (eg. the Ensoniqs and Rolands, etc.) had built-in editors that were very adept at this, and pretty much made it an integral part of the sampling process.  It looks like most of the available info on this today is on YouTube, so I recommend going there and doing a search on "crossfading audio samples".  There are videos there for doing it with Ableton Live, Logic, FL Studio, and some of the more popular DAW software.  Here is a specific site for crossfading between audio "tracks" with Audacity, but the process is similar to crossfading sample loop points:

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/57252/how-to-use-crossfade-in-audacity-for-seamless-transitions-between-audio-tracks/

 

By far, the most efficient (and popular), but most difficult, crossfade was the bow-tie crossfade, but with the weaknesses of our modern day search engines, when I search on that, I only get hits on bow-ties that you wear.  The bow-tie crossfade detected the "normalized center" of the sample's overall volume and did its fade tapers to and from that point, but this obviously required some highly specialized programming algorithms.  I doubt very much that you would find this available to the general public today.

 

- T -

 

[Chas]

Hey Guys,

 

Thanks so much for the responses, and sorry that I haven't replied sooner. My direction took a left turn and I ended up focusing on completing a track for a competition I was entering (submitted my entry tonight). I made a post in the Share Your Music section here:
 

 

With regards to my "clicking" sampling issue:

Jokeyman123 and Brad - I was experimenting with a basic sound wave/ sample, one that was fairly consistent in overall timbre. It was a rich saw tooth style sound, not a complex evolving pad or anything. No fast attacks or releases. I think my issue might have been the way I was loading the samples into the Data Editor, as I later found out about the feature where you could load multi samples at once (I think I was doing them individually). I tried adjusting both the loop points and end points, but though I could reduce the click on any given sample (or make it worse!), I couldn't eradicate it entirely. As mentioned, it may have been the way I loaded the samples into the editor.

 

I took a different direction by loading some samples into Audacity and then using the Paulstretch effect, that meant I could stretch the sample to a much greater length and still maintain the original pitch (you can hear the result of that in the song I entered for the competition). Of course, that doesn't get away from the fact that I need to learn to loop samples better in the XW so I can get them to repeat cycle without clicking. I will retry again shortly.

 

-T-, thanks for the link and the explanation - I will definitely check out that link and try and find more information on bow tie crossfading. I suspect part of my problem is trying to use my G1 as a traditional sampler, where I think it's more designed to be a live looper and short sample player. I have a vintage FZ-20M that has the ability to crossfade samples, along with numerous other sample processing/ editing tools, but it appears that the G1 does not have any crossfading abilities. Strange that vintage tech has that and much more modern tech doesn't.

 

Anyhow, I will be delving more into my G1's features and capabilities in the coming days/ weeks. This adventure is not over yet!

[Chas]

Hi all, I got a private message asking a question about this, so I thought I would share my response so that everyone could benefit from my answer.

 

Question:

"Hello, i am a new owner of a XW-G1 and you wrote this subject few time ago.

 

I ve got exactely the same problem and can t loop my samples without a "click" 

Have you find a solution with the loop of the casio ?

Personnaly my rec mode is : Sample rec 21 kHz but when I try to edit the split mode to make an "infinity sound" it clicks ( it doesn t work with 42khz anyway )

 

Sorry for my bad english ( i m french )"

Answer:

 

Hello,

 

No, I didn't get looped samples on my G1 to loop without clicking, though I did look into how to do it.

 

What needs to be done is to crossfade the end of the sample with a section from the beginning. That way the end of the sample is merged to the beginning of the waveform, meaning that the transition from the end of the sample back to the beginning is seamless.  That will get rid of the audible "click" during looping.

 

I was planning to try this with Audacity, but as yet haven't got round to doing so. Basically load the sample into Audacity, crossfade the end with the beginning, then export as an audio file. Then use the Casio Data Editor software to import it into the G1, and the sample should loop without clicking.

 

BTW, please ask such questions in the actual forum. That way any answers can benefit everyone  👍