Tones reference? Help reverse engineering demos from YouTube?

[ponzu]

Hello CT-X700 and 800 owners! I have a lot of newbie questions and am trying to figure out the best way to ask them. I started posting to Reddit because it is supposed to have the power of numbers, but apparently CT-X700 owners either are not finding my questions or perhaps they are all here.

 

I am what I consider an advanced beginner. I know chords even if I can't quickly reach every 7th and I understand the basic music theory. I have an upright piano, but don't want to torture the family with my practicing until I get better, so I bought a CT-X700 and headphones.

 

My preferred use of the keyboard and the piano is finding YouTube tutorials or demos and learning accompaniment for pop songs. Then I hum to them and when I get better, my kids will sing along. I also like emulating 1970s electronica (think Vangelis or JM Jarre) I grew up with. For piano tutorials, many YouTubers take the time to explain chords, finger shifts, etc. For electronica covers, people usually just play, letting the overhead camera show the hands -- if that! They almost never let the viewer know which rhythm or tones they are using, and if they do, it is never on CT-X700, so the names of the tones don't map one-to-one, even from other Casios. Someone might think picking rhythms and tones is the fun part on working on a cover, and one day I may feel that way, too.

 

The two main questions I have are:

 

1. Isn't there a published searchable reference somewhere of the full names of the 600 tones in the form of a PDF or a Wiki page or some such? Various synth tones are spread throughout categories, and I have to hunt them down by endlessly scrolling. And when I find a tone I like, I want to know its name/character. Does 319 DgSyStr1 stand for Digital Synth Strings 1? The manual only has a reference of songs and the key assignments for the 40 drum sets.

 

2. Is this a good forum to post a YouTube link and ask for the community to chime in with their advice on the best CT-X700 rhythm and tone(s) to match what is being played in the video? Here is an example of Jean Michel Jarre cover played on a high-end Casio using auto chords and fingering at about my level. The biggest challenge then is to match the rhythm and the tones as closely as possible. And this would be a specific question: at 1:24 mark the player switches to what he labels Startrails11. I love that sound. Obviously, not available directly on CT-X700, but we have plenty of Str this and Syn that. What tone would you use? Is there a setting I can use to match the echo/reverb heard in the video?

 

I am asking both for the specific advice on this video and in general: would members of this forum consider it time well spent trying to help someone reverse engineer the sounds in a YouTube video, or is this, to put it plainly, lame?

 

 

 Thank you in advance!

[Brad Saucier]

37 minutes ago, ponzu said:

Does 319 DgSyStr1 stand for Digital Synth Strings 1

 

Yes, the CTX appendix shows names like that.  You can download a searchable PDF version of the appendix, see my pinned post in the general CTX section.

 

37 minutes ago, ponzu said:

Is this a good forum to post a YouTube link and ask for the community to chime in with their advice on the best CT-X700 rhythm and tone(s) to match what is being played in the video?

 

Sure.  Go for it.  That's what this site is all about, helping one another make music with Casio.  I suggest creating a single thread dedicated to that topic.

[ponzu]

2 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

Yes, the CTX appendix shows names like that.  You can download a searchable PDF version of the appendix, see my pinned post in the general CTX section.

 

Thank you! Very helpful, indeed. While they use Str. abbreviation liberally, as long as it always means "Strings" (not Stereo, not Startrails), I am good.

 

Could you kindly explain how to interpret and use columns 4 ("Program change") and 5 ("Bank select MSB")? I understand that column 6 is a DSP yes/no, so it's either there or not, sort of an FYI. Column 8 is octave shift, I understand what it is.

 

Going down the appendix, the second reference is rhythm list. WYSISWG. Nice!

 

Next is "Versatile Tone Map". Can you explain how it is to be used/referenced?

 

The next one is "Music Preset List". I understand that most are actual songs. They are listed with their coded/abbreviated names, same as on the keyboard, and some are easy to identify by code or sound. Is there any chance that someone has taken the trouble to spell out the actual song names in these forums? Like 009 Love Pop has to be You Can't Hurry Love. Has anyone connected the dots already?

 

Finally, there is list of 100 arpeggiator modes. Should be super helpful once I get to learning to use it.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chandler Holloway]

Program Change and bank select messages are only useful if you're doing external MIDI sequencing. These values are used to call up specific tones remotely in the event that a MIDI sequence needs to change instruments on a particular track. If you're only changing tones and playing with the built in stuff, just pay attention to the three digit tone number in the leftmost column. This is the number you'll type in on the number pad to select certain tones during normal operation, but I would also get used to using the category button to get around to different types of tones quickly if you want to browse through a particular subset of instruments while you're trying to recreate a tone you've heard elsewhere.

 

Versatile tones aren't really meant for playing live on the keyboard. While the keyboard has many guitar tones that can be played normally (chromatically) with each note assigned to a key, the versatile tones are different. They're "mapped" to the keys with particular performance effects (strums, bends, muted picks, harmonics etc) assigned to specific keys to produce the desired effects. It's nearly impossible to actually play these tones normally due to this weird mapping, and as such, they are mostly used for adding realistic sounding guitar parts to the built-in Rhythm styles. They can be utilized properly if you sequence notes for them in a very particular way, but this requires a lot of practice and trial and error. The versatile tone map shows which keys produce which effects so that Casio users who want to program their own Rhythms that use guitars can try to figure it out for themselves (though I've not seen anyone attempt it on their own).

 

There are Delay effects under in the Reverb menu within the Functions list, scroll to the last items in the list and you'll find them. I would recommend Delay 2, it's more noticeable than Delay 1. Note that that choosing one of the delay effects from the Reverb menu doesn't make you "sacrifice" reverb for your sound; these Delay effects have a default hall reverb applied to them in addition to the Delay effect (you'll hear it if you listen closely). On the higher end CT-X models, there's a separate delay menu with more options (meaning you can choose a particular Reverb and Delay independently of one another), but they simplified things on the X700 and X800 by putting Reverb and Delay in the same sub-menu.

[ponzu]

Thank you for your reply. A few things are over my head, but I understood that I need not worry about some of the references just because they are there.

 

Quote

I would recommend Delay 2

 

I assume this was in response to the part 2 of my original question. I do plan on following Brad's advice and creating a topic for each of the videos I am trying to match (or perhaps he meant I should start one thread for all such inquiries). So long as you clicked on the video and know about various Casios, do you have an opinion on the best CT-X700 approximation of what the YouTuber labels as Startrails11 on his MZ?

 

I am modifying Reverb with 319 DgSyStr1. Frankly, I can't hear any difference as I go through all options, not even when I set it to Off. Should it be fairly easy to hear with an untrained ear?

 

Also, after Reverb settings comes Chorus. Default is Off. I tried playing with a few settings, and also can't hear the effect. Do those only kick in when playing against chords?

[ponzu]

One other question: what does the GM in the "GM tones" stand for, and what is special about this group?

[Chandler Holloway]

Delay is going to be less noticeable with softer pad sounds like strings, as those sounds don't have a sharp attack or release to emphasize the echo effect. The Delay 2 setting should be pretty noticeable. Try picking out a drum set tone, and then switch to Delay 2. Play a snare drum sound and you should hear the echo pretty noticeably. If you don't, something must be wrong with how you've set things up.

 

Again Chorus is a subtle effect on strings because it's already a fat, full ensemble sound by nature. It should produce a "wider" sound with slight wavering in pitch to create a specific texture. Hard to explain in text, but Chorus effects are a common thing in the world of musical instruments so some googling and youtube videos should help you out there. Try light chorus and then deep chorus on an electric piano tone and you should hear the difference.

 

Chorus isn't default Off, it should default to Tone. This means that if a tone has a factory preset DSP effect applied to it (this was the DSP yes/no column in the appendix you noticed), the tone will use that DSP preset instead of whatever you've manually configured in the Chorus menu. For example, EPiano 2 is a DSP preset tone that applies a phaser effect and a light chorus. If you have Chorus set to Tone, it defaults to whatever is assigned to the Tone (in this case, that phaser+light chorus). If there's no preset DSP effect assigned to the tone, then no Chorus or DSP effect is applied. If you have something manually configured in the Chorus list (like Deep Chorus or a Flanger), it will use that manual setting instead of what is applied to the tone from the factory.

 

Haven't watched your video yet, I'm editing a tutorial video in the background so I need to keep my ears open and I'm tabbing back and forth a lot. I'll have a listen and give suggestions if I find the time later.

 

GM tones are general MIDI tones. They're not particularly useful for your needs, the non-GM tones are much better for a variety of reasons so I'd ignore them. The first chapter of my Creating Casio Rhythms on your Computer Guide (linked in my signature below this post) explains General MIDI in much greater detail if you want to know the background on why GM tones exist.

[Brad Saucier]

GM tones are most useful whenever the keyboard is used as a MIDI controller and you want to select GM patches on another device.  Also useful for recording a song on the keyboard sequencer whenever the goal is to transfer the song as SMF, standard midi file.  

[ConfusedRedditor16]

I would agree, it's very hard to make out the difference between the different reverb presets for a beginner. 

[vbdx66]

It is best to try out the various effects on a patch you know well.

 

I have personally found out that the Church preset is great for acoustic instruments such as strings, flutes, saxophones etc.

 

You might want to try Plate and Delay effects on synth sounds.

 

In the choruses, I have found that Chorus 2 fattens the sound without exaggeration and will make strings, organ and synth sounds deeper and richer.

 

You might get some weird sounds when the Flanger effect is applied.

 

Just experiment, after a while you’ll get familiar with what each effect does to the sound.

 

Also, don’t forget that some of the sounds already have some effects applied to them - they are tagged with “DSP” in the voice list. The reverb and chorus you choose might thus interact with these preset effects.

 

I’d advise you to tweak your sounds with a decent pair of headphones, it’ll enable you to hear properly the sometimes subtle differences between various effect settings.

 

Vinciane

[ponzu]

17 hours ago, Chandler Holloway said:

Chorus isn't default Off, it should default to Tone

You are absolutely right. As you had suggested, I was examining the Reverb and Chorus settings on a clean voice, I think Pop Piano. That way I could clearly hear the effects of both Reverb and Chorus. Chorus set to Tone I equated with "tone itself", which I equated with "no chorus", which I equated with "off". Also, the tick mark next to CHORUS on the LCD goes away when Chorus is set to Tone, hence, I was thinking of it as "off". I do realize now that all additional sounds I hear with DSP tones are reverb and chorus and with your help I have a better understanding of how preset tone effects play together with the function settings.

[ponzu]

17 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

GM tones are most useful whenever the keyboard is used as a MIDI controller and you want to select GM patches on another device.  Also useful for recording a song on the keyboard sequencer whenever the goal is to transfer the song as SMF, standard midi file.

Don't laugh, I understood about 60% of your words. I am still to learn "MIDI controller", "GM patches", "sequencer", etc. Don't worry about educating me in this thread, I will find some learning materials. Just please dumb it down for me when possible. I am new to piano, newer to synthesizers.

[Siberialina]

On 2/19/2021 at 10:25 AM, Brad Saucier said:

 

Yes, the CTX appendix shows names like that.  You can download a searchable PDF version of the appendix, see my pinned post in the general CTX section.

 

 

Sure.  Go for it.  That's what this site is all about, helping one another make music with Casio.  I suggest creating a single thread dedicated to that topic.

HI Brad. I must be blind, but I do not see the full tones list in the appendix. I see drum assignment, song list, MIDI, etc but no list of all 600 tones. Could you kindly point me in the right direction please? I seemed to have looked through the manual and online... Am I missing something? I just want a list of all rhythms and tones for Ct-X800. Thank you

[Brad Saucier]

The appendix is a separate manual found here... https://support.casio.com/en/manual/manualfile.php?cid=008007004

[Rhodes player]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:33 AM, Brad Saucier said:

The appendix is a separate manual found here... https://support.casio.com/en/manual/manualfile.php?cid=008007004

Can you please share the link for all tones list for Casio ctx 870in?

Please share

[keroleen]

Thank you for posting this. i had asked this  awhile back and basically got the response that it was all trial and error.  Usually layering sounds will get 'close enough' to the patches you need, keeping in mind that by default you cannot change the volume for the layering without the hack.  But I would love to start a list of sounds that people use for certain songs!

I will share that to get the sounds I want, I use the hack that Chandler created and I connect external devices (Macbook and iPad) and software such as SynthOne, FMPlayer2, or a daw like Garage Band/Ableton to get extra tones or custom created tones.

I couldnt find any of the effects onboard made a difference so I use physical guitar effect pedals to really get the delay and reverb particular shimmer for U2 songs. 

..and this is how you make your $100 arranger work like a pro rig!

[Chandler Holloway]

45 minutes ago, keroleen said:

I will share that to get the sounds I want, I use the hack that Chandler created and I connect external devices (Macbook and iPad) and software such as SynthOne, FMPlayer2, or a daw like Garage Band/Ableton to get extra tones or custom created tones.

I couldnt find any of the effects onboard made a difference so I use physical guitar effect pedals to really get the delay and reverb particular shimmer for U2 songs. 

..and this is how you make your $100 arranger work like a pro rig!

 

Glad you are having success using my modified files to get the most out of your CT-X!

 

I should let you know that the program I've used to create those utility bank files (RBK Mixer) is now available to the public for beta testing. You can download the latest release here. This will finally unlock the ability to independently tweak the volume levels of the layered and split sounds (whereas the utility bank files just mute and hard pan specific tones, which is useful, but doesn't offer much in the way of in-depth control).

 

I don't have instructional videos out for the software yet (should be done soon), so if you have any questions about how to get up and running, please just post in the beta testing thread and I'll be happy to help out.

 

Very cool that you're using guitar effect pedals to help out with your synth patches. One of my favorite gear YouTubers, Jorb, just started an awesome instructional video series on using guitar pedals with synthesizers. The first episode is pretty basic power and signal path logistics stuff, but future episodes will get more fun and experimental with modulation effects, reverb and delay, overdrive etc. Should help give you some fun ideas to work with if you're starting to explore more of that type of sound design.

 

Best of luck as you continue to master your CT-X! Always great to hear from folks who are using and enjoying my various Casio projects, it makes it all worth it.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Chandler Holloway

[Kabrilez]

Hi! If you have questions ask?