Jokeyman123 Posted February 24, 2021 Share Posted February 24, 2021 I am putting forth a challenge-I've already done it myself a bit-for anyone who has one of the programmable CTK's/WK's, PX's-I think the CTX which I think can edit tones and MZ-X which of course can load samples and edit tones, right? How about trying-if you have or had a Casio CZ-to duplicate some of those sounds-even better-an older CTK, MT or even one of the SK sampling Casios that had also stock sounds built in to load into our newer Casios that can do thatI had an SK2100 for a long time when it first came out-maybe even a specific upload section for these-although could also be uploaded to whatever keyboard and upload section here you designed it for. I started with the PX560-I've already created some of these CZ tones and uploaded here-mostly from my memory of programming the CZ's i did not save any of my programming books unfortunately. But...I have a selection of CZ and SK tones (no longer have the keyboards) as sampled tones I will try to duplicate as a single PX560 tone, or a hex layer-although I'm pretty sure most of these can be done with a single 560 tone. The XW's can aslo do this, and even have most of the CZ basic PD waves in their database. Maybe there are some tones uploaded here already-this user group has grown pretty substantially in a few years I've been here. I know there are virtual CZ software models that can do this, but after listening to some recent samples I've gotten hold of, it reminded me how interesting and different some of the CZ tones were with the PD (phase distortion) synthesis. and the very useful (for programmers) 8-stage envelopes. Even some of the biggest of the big boys still don't have 8-stage envelopes. In case you don't know what that is-just with pitch envelopes alone, you could create a single tone that transitioned into 8 different pitches-with one note. and same with the amp and filter envelopes. I remember one tone I programmed in particular-using some white noise that went from a car engine revving, to brakes screeching, to a car crash sound, then an ambulance siren-in tone on one key! Very cool but again...I lost my programming notes a long time ago. Thus this challenge!!! And remember....."We.....Are the music Makers, and We......Are the dreamers of dreams..... Willy Wonka 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XW-Addict Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Is there a time limit doing that , Its not easy I like it. The CZ although legendary its old we have these other synthesis engine to do cool stuff with and somehow the CZ is in there as well. A car engine revving brake screeeching car crash ambulance seagulls dog bark. those at least should be synthesized with the latest keyboards synthesis engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 No...time limit at all-it was just an idea. The challenge would be doing these 'concrete" sound effects with an original CZ if anyone has one-using just the PD waves in the original CZ's. I did years ago,but didn't save my work. The XW also has the CZ waves-pulse, sawtooth, sine, many of the original PD synthesized wave shapes. Sure you can do these with sampled sounds-but i was thinking, trying to get not just these most difficult "concrete" sounds, but some of the original sounds using our newer Casios too. XW-I uploaded a few here in the upload section, but again only playable on the PX560-so far-some sound effects types I created-and sounds I remembered from my CZ's. If anyone cares to..or if you post an mp3 tone from your original CZ's if you have any-to use as a model. Just thought it might be a bit of fun to see what people come up with. After all, we can upload our musical work, why not some more original sounds from the CZ? I'll post a few of what i did w/PX560 as mp3 or mp4 in this group of posts when I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanB Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Anyone planning advanced CZ programming should of course use my state of the art Windows editor software VZV-CZ! /end self promotion XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 IanB-Absolutely-your editor is part of what got me thinking about this again. I think one of the difficulties with my "challenge" would be to those who never owned a CZ-but can find audio examples on Youtube although I haven't checked CZ demos there. but that still would not help anyone who has never programmed one. Your software would be perfect for that,and for those of us, like me who know how to program the CZs but don't have one anymore-I sold my last CZ230s for parts when I realized i could try to create some-but not all of the CZ sounds with the XW and the PX-560. Neither of these have 8-stage envelopes like the original CZ's do-which accounts for the ability to program many sounds other synths cannot. I'm sure there are other workstations or VA synths that might have 8-stage envelopes-I haven't researched that-byut then, the PD sysnthesis did not soundthe same as the FM of the time-still doesn't. and didn't sound quite the same as analog synths of the time either-had a different characteristic sound to it. I compared it at the time to my Korg DW-6000/8000 synths, a Korg Poly-61 and and the Korg mon-poly I had for awhile. and a Sequential Pro-One-the original. with all that, the CZ's still had its own sound. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Here it is-this is the "Holy Grail" for CZ synth programming-I owned every book about CZ prgramming thever came out at the time-but this one is truly unique-this author had programs that were amazing-and apparently this small paperback is now very scarce. But this is the "one". I wish I had kept mine-I sold it, so someone out there has one! It was designed for those of us who stockpiled the "EZ-CZ extended memory cartridges-of which I had 4. Should have kept those too! https://www.matrixsynth.com/2013/03/casio-cz-101-synthesizer-easy-cz-book.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XW-Addict Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Ok not everything CZ is preserved very well. But some of the info like that its an eight stage synth is helpful. A few audio examples would suffice and figure out some hex versions with the wave forms at hand. My XW isn't doing anything yet so that out of the picture. Could the CZ retrigger envelopes , I actually know less about it's internals. But there also the CZ app I suddenly remember and looking at so that manual can be handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 I think there is a virtual CZ software synth somewhere which might help since you'd need a CZ to use IanB's program to make your own Cz sounds. I may have the software synth in one of my laptos. I'll check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanB Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 You can load a sysex file into my editor without an attached synth; so you can see what the patch does even if you can't hear it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random_Vibration Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Wouldn't know where to begin to do this for a PX-560. I have a new Yamaha DX Reface arriving today or tomorrow and Dexed that I will used to build Yamaha DX7 patches for the MZ-X500. That is a rather straight forward exercise for the MZ-X500. The PX-560 doesn't have a sample editor or support sampling so I don't know how this is accomplished. How close can one get by choosing PX-560 tones and modifying envelopes to match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 I've used the hex layer mode to try to duplicate a few sounds. In hex layer-you can access individual wav samples in the PX560 that you can't access in individual tone mode.There are 2 virtual CZ's one is a paid for plug-in for a DAW if you wanted to experiment around with the software approach-the other is called Digits 2.0 by "Extent of the Jam' which is also a software plug-in or can be used with something called "VST Host" which allows you to use any software plug-in such as Digits or the paid virtual CZ without a DAW-as a stand-alone software program-maybe a little less complicated. This would give you a starting point to audition CZ sounds if you are not familiar wth what these sound like. I used simple sawthooth, sine and pulse waves that are built into the PX560-how it creates its "virtual analog" sounds but can also be used to at least mimic the CZ. The unique nature of the CZ sounds was accomplished because the phase distortion concept Casio used to create the typical so-called 'analog" basic synth waveforms-gave these a slightly different character. the only way I can approach the 8-stage envelopes of the CZ's-is by creating separate tones with the 4-stage envelopes in the PX560-and layering tones together-to simulate this. not so easy-but can be done if you have the patience to program sounds like this. The CZ's made it much easier, as you could do this with one tone. By varying the pitch envelope attack and release times-but for separate tones in a hex layer-you could for example create a hex layer that will generate several different pitches for each keypress at different times, and then yet a different tone on key release. Might not have much practical use-just a special effect-but this is how the CZ's could create an entire sequence of different pitches, white noise and timing with just one tone on one key. In some repsects for me at least back then-and I was learning sampling with a Korg DSS-1, a monstrous machine at the time and was having alot of fum with samples-this was a pretty interesting way to create sounds with just the typical analog basic wave shapes-no sampling involved. took some pretty clever programming-I learned from the Easy CZ book I posted a link to if you can find one. But then, I have had some fun programming sounds for quite a few keyboards over the years, its something that interests me, is certainly not for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodman3000 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Yes that's what we need is build a cz5000 into ct-x3000 with the 8 stage envelopes that will read cz sounds. I owned the cz101 and it had so many sounds made for itr. Arturia has a CZ vst but it doesn't seem like the collections of cz sounds exist anymore. At least i can't locate them on the web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random_Vibration Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Jokeyman, you planted a CZ bug in my head that slowly began to eat at me. I am going to try it out. Started out with the DX reface and researching the DX7, DX9, DX1, DX21, DX100, TX6 and TX8. That got me back the CZ which could make some FM like sounds with it's PD synthesizer. Yet, PD is easier to drive than FM. While I play with PD, maybe we can get Casio to make a CZ reface with new hardware. I still prefer physical hardware eventhough I have a DAW and Dexed. Maybe I'll try to gen up some CZ like MZ and PX tones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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