Rhythm Creation

[Akshansh - Alex]

I was finding an option in MZ-X "How to create 'dual chords intros' for user rhythm?

 

Dual Chords like sperate intro for Major chords and sperate for Minor "in one intro only"

 

One example of the rhythm is "Indian Pop 1" which is in the Various category. Is have it's separate intros for major and minor chords.

 

Even Earlier keyboards CT-K or earlier have this and CT-X5000 also have this.

 

So, there is option available of MZ-X to create separate chord intro in Intro 1 and another separated intro in Intro 2...

 

But, if I want to transfer the rhythm with separate chords of intros in both Intro 1 and 2, the CT-X cannot accept Intro 2

 

Then, there is any way to create dual chord Intros (in the same Intro) for the user rhythms. Two Intro for different chords in different events? 😊

[Silvano Silva]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:18 AM, Akshansh said:

I was finding an option in MZ-X "How to create 'dual chords intros' for user rhythm?

 

Dual Chords like sperate intro for Major chords and sperate for Minor "in one intro only"

 

One example of the rhythm is "Indian Pop 1" which is in the Various category. Is have it's separate intros for major and minor chords.

 

Even Earlier keyboards CT-K or earlier have this and CT-X5000 also have this.

 

So, there is option available of MZ-X to create separate chord intro in Intro 1 and another separated intro in Intro 2...

 

But, if I want to transfer the rhythm with separate chords of intros in both Intro 1 and 2, the CT-X cannot accept Intro 2

 

Then, there is any way to create dual chord Intros (in the same Intro) for the user rhythms. Two Intro for different chords in different events? 😊

There is no way.

I already commented on the forum.

I've noticed that there are rhythms in both the CTK, the CT-X and the MZ-X that have these different intros.

The answer is in the AC7 FILE which is locked for editing.

On my old Roland E-50 there is the option to create 3 different arrangements: Major Minors and Sevenths.

We hope one day that Casio will create a program that does this AC7 - MIDI conversion so that we can edit information from CCs. Another detail is that Casio keyboards do not accept BPM changes for the RHYTHMS.

If you create a Midi rhythm and put the BPM changes in the DAW the MZ-X won't accept it.

This is all because the AC7 file is locked.

[vbdx66]

Hi, I recall that somewhere else on this forum somebody found a way to unlock AC7 files. I think that you can edit the AC7 file on the keyboard itself, do a very minor change, than save the rhythm as an user rhythms. Then you can make changes to the new user rhythm because it’ll be unlocked. I am not sure whether this is applicable to Intros. But you could always record the intro as MIDI then edit it in the DAW of your choice. @Chandler Hollowayexplained this thoroughly somewhere else on this forum. This is a time consuming process but if you need a tailored-made rhythm to work with a specific song it might be worth it.

[Chandler Holloway]

 

2 hours ago, vbdx66 said:

Hi, I recall that somewhere else on this forum somebody found a way to unlock AC7 files. I think that you can edit the AC7 file on the keyboard itself, do a very minor change, than save the rhythm as an user rhythms. Then you can make changes to the new user rhythm because it’ll be unlocked. I am not sure whether this is applicable to Intros. But you could always record the intro as MIDI then edit it in the DAW of your choice. @Chandler Hollowayexplained this thoroughly somewhere else on this forum. This is a time consuming process but if you need a tailored-made rhythm to work with a specific song it might be worth it.

 

Any locked Casio preset file that is processed by ReStyle is automatically unlocked, meaning it can be edited with spot clear and overdub on the CT-X3000/X5000.

 

MZ-X files can be unlocked within the MZ-X interface themselves through saving and copying individual tracks, but that still wouldn't give you access to the way the Casio preset Rhythms are programmed with regards to separate, major/minor dependent intro sections. That requires knowledge of the AC7 format that goes beyond just removing the overdub protection of the presets.

 

@Mclandy knows more about the AC7 format than anybody else here, myself included. He'd be the best one to ask.

[Silvano Silva]

22 hours ago, Chandler Holloway said:

 

 

Any locked Casio preset file that is processed by ReStyle is automatically unlocked, meaning it can be edited with spot clear and overdub on the CT-X3000/X5000.

 

MZ-X files can be unlocked within the MZ-X interface themselves through saving and copying individual tracks, but that still wouldn't give you access to the way the Casio preset Rhythms are programmed with regards to separate, major/minor dependent intro sections. That requires knowledge of the AC7 format that goes beyond just removing the overdub protection of the presets.

 

@Mclandy knows more about the AC7 format than anybody else here, myself included. He'd be the best one to ask.

Congratulations on your work with the partial unlocking of the AC7 files. It was thanks to this work that I was able to change the dynamics of a CHA CHA CHA on the Casio MZ-X. It's not just the Intros that would be interesting to unlock, but also the variations. Above the post cites the Intros and Endings but I believe that all variations and Fills could benefit from this feature. Some think these features are not interesting because they say that it is enough to record the SYTE Ac7 in the Midi recorder but I think it would be interesting to unlock some features that are not possible in the conventional way. My question is in which Midi channels the AC7 hides the MINOR and MAJOR ARRANGEMENTS. I used to have a PSR 630 and thanks to a CASM EDIT program I was able to create STYLES with elaborate arrangements that the keyboard would not normally accept.

[jorgeellesmen]

 I am owner of   casio MZ X 500 Why casio dont permit that users can edit rhythm in PC we need programs that made more easy the rhythm edition. The performance of any rhythms use Dual Chords like separate intro for Major chords and sperate for Minor  but how can i do that from my Mz X 500 ? I can fine pro Tutorials for mz x 500  software for this keyboard, hidding info. ¡¡¡Casio we need more support !!!

[Akshansh - Alex]

Looks like Casio will not unlock the AC7 file for the keyboards. In future it's possible or not I don't know. But, in MZ-X500 the function will not be provided!

 

Apart from that we have to see the codes of the AC7 to understand it better? I'm not a coder or software designer but I can o ly thinks that it may be possible.!?

 

If the codes will be compared from both FXed factory rhythm and Unlocked unFXed rhythm (rhythm will be the same)...

 

If there is any difference between both, the code of FXed can be copy and pasted to the same inlocked unFXed user rhythm which is unlocked, so this function may be works or not? Let's try it, I'll try it if some of the respected members will provide ahead lights. 🙂

[jorgeellesmen]

In yamaha keyboards is possibly  to do that operation because they use the 16 Channels of midi . They program in the casm info of a channel and mute some  chords for major intro secuence or minor and redirect the channel to the Main channel used for the style,  thats mean the info recorded  in channel 1 to 8 is redirected to Channels 9 to 16 (recognized rhythm Channels).  Casio RHYTHM permits that too, but casio must free the software. 

Not even in the mzx500 making a rthym from a midi dont permit this advanced options. And for the Price of this keyboard, this advaced options must be present.😔 

 

[Silvano Silva]

11 hours ago, jorgeellesmen said:

In yamaha keyboards is possibly  to do that operation because they use the 16 Channels of midi . They program in the casm info of a channel and mute some  chords for major intro secuence or minor and redirect the channel to the Main channel used for the style,  thats mean the info recorded  in channel 1 to 8 is redirected to Channels 9 to 16 (recognized rhythm Channels).  Casio RHYTHM permits that too, but casio must free the software. 

Not even in the mzx500 making a rthym from a midi dont permit this advanced options. And for the Price of this keyboard, this advaced options must be present.😔 

 

The curious thing is that in a Rhythms conversion program there are options to convert files from different brands but the AC7 extension is not present.

Casio has locked the Extension because it is in these files that the chord variations should be.

And to think that a detail like this could release Guitar Loop in the MZ-X simply by routing through chord chains.

The Forum Friends ReStyle program unlocks rhythm editing but it is not possible to unlock Intros with different chords

[Mclandy]

@Chandler Hollowayhas identified the main problem, which is that most of the built-in rhythms use capabilities of the AC7 file that are not directly editable from the keyboard interface.  Actually, any element and part (intro/ending/variation/fill) can have a major and minor track (which alternately play, depending on the chord being fingered on the keyboard at the time), but primarily this capability is used in Intros and Endings because they contain more melodic parts.  While these dual tracks can be marked as unlocked, the keyboard will still show an error message (I forget the exact word/phrase) if you try to edit an element that contains more than one track, because the keyboard does not provide a way to select or edit individual tracks in the same element/part.  They keyboard can play them, you just can't edit them.

 

So the net is, even with the tracks unlocked, you won't be able to copy and edit the intros and endings of most built-in rhythms on the keyboard.  To implement this outside of the keyboard, the AC7 file format contains a lot of inter-related components that have to be assembled in a correct and precise way - in other words, much more complex than cut and paste.  Also, the track content in AC7 files is not even standard MIDI, it's all Casio-unique track events.

[Mclandy]

On 2/27/2022 at 7:12 AM, jorgeellesmen said:

In yamaha keyboards is possibly  to do that operation because they use the 16 Channels of midi . They program in the casm info of a channel and mute some  chords for major intro secuence or minor and redirect the channel to the Main channel used for the style,  thats mean the info recorded  in channel 1 to 8 is redirected to Channels 9 to 16 (recognized rhythm Channels).  Casio RHYTHM permits that too, but casio must free the software. 

Not even in the mzx500 making a rthym from a midi dont permit this advanced options. And for the Price of this keyboard, this advaced options must be present.😔 

 

I'll just point out that the Yamaha CASM format actually has quite a bit more flexibility when it comes to having multiple tracks for an element/part.  You can program a specific track to play for highly-selectable combinations of chords (major, minor, 7th, diminished, tension, etc.), whereas Casio just provides the major and minor variations. While this may seem limiting, from my experience it looks like the flexibility in the Yamaha format gets misused (typically in home-grown or commercial rhythms) as much as it is properly used.  It seems like the Yamaha format might be a little "over-engineered", which is not surprising from Yamaha.  What Casio provides is generally quite sufficient for most needs.

[jorgeellesmen]

that is what i Mean ... why casio think is providing the most we need ? but they can route and edit their development rhythms. why casio dont simply  free  the software and pemit we edit our rhythms in the way we want. and this will make more easy the edition and the development of new styles. casio make a great job in their rhythms , they sound more comercials but is limiting the owners of its products no releasing a great software.

[Mclandy]

Sorry, I just meant that Casio provides a rhythm format is sufficient for most musical needs, while the Yamaha format has so much flexibility that it's easy to make mistakes that result in "badly formed" rhythms.  I agree that it would be nice if Casio did provide more format information and even some utilities, to make rhythm creation easier and access all the capabilities of the keyboard.

[Silvano Silva]

2 hours ago, Mclandy said:

Sorry, I just meant that Casio provides a rhythm format is sufficient for most musical needs, while the Yamaha format has so much flexibility that it's easy to make mistakes that result in "badly formed" rhythms.  I agree that it would be nice if Casio did provide more format information and even some utilities, to make rhythm creation easier and access all the capabilities of the keyboard.

 

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software.htm

 

This is a small example of the amount of software available for Yamaha.

I think it's because of the fame and also because of the open format of its files like STY.

If the STY files were not opened, direct conversion on the Casio MZ-X would not be possible.

Because Casio doesn't do the same. I'll give an example if Casio built a software where the AC7 was unlocked we could put Guitar Loop on the Casio MZ-X.

I managed to put Guitar Loop in the MZ-X but in an unusual way that takes up a lot of resources from the MZ-X

[Mclandy]

I'm very familiar with jososoft (I used to have a Yamaha keyboard, too), but note in the web site title that it is the "Unofficial Yamaha Keyboard Resource Site".  In other words, the documentation and tools on that site are not based on anything that Yamaha released, but on the work, mostly of one person (Jorgen Sorensen), who experimented and figured out the formats.  From there, he and many others have created a variety of tools.  The format is not "open", but it has been reverse-engineered.  Yamaha does not support it, but it has not seriously tried to discourage it, either.  Because Yamaha uses standard MIDI tracks (in fact, a Style file is simply a standard MIDI file with extra Yamaha information added at the end), most of the content can be easily imported on other keyboards, even without knowing a lot about the Yamaha-specific data.  So really, it's not that Yamaha and Casio are handling things that differently,  but rather:

1. There has been more reverse-engineering work done on the Yamaha format by 3rd parties, over a longer period of time.  The Style format has actually been around long enough that they've had to break compatibility with older versions a couple of times.
2. Yamaha "Style" format is still built on top of the standard MIDI file format, so it naturally interoperates with other MIDI tools.  Unfortunately, Casio's Rhythm format is not.  I don't know why.

[Jokeyman123]

All .sty files I've downloaded simply need to have their suffix changed from .sty to .mid. voila, instant midi file. but of course, directly using the file as any casio style-needs modification. I've documented this years ago here. Thanks to Jorgen, who's website has been very useful for a variety of reasons and for quite awhile. Thanks to Chandler and others here for fully documenting how to do that and for the amazing software development here for the Casio arrangers, very impressive.

[Mclandy]

4 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

All .sty files I've downloaded simply need to have their suffix changed from .sty to .mid. voila, instant midi file. but of course, directly using the file as any casio style-needs modification. I've documented this years ago here.

Right, that's because the first section of a .sty file is a complete, standard MIDI file.  Most software just disregards any data after the standard MIDI part (that is, the Style CASM section), so that's why it works as a MIDI file if you just rename the file.  The CASM section is what provides all the mapping of tracks to specific parts (drum, chord ,phrase, etc.) and variations (V1, V2, etc.), when to play them (based on what's being played on the keyboard), and how to interpret them (are they recorded as major/minor/7th/etc.).  In some cases, it even specifies that the notes in the track should be interpreted as something completely different than a standard MIDI notes (e.g., "Guitar mode" and special voices like Mega!).

 

Those extra Yamaha capabilities (specified outside the MIDI portion) have grown over time to add more flexibility and realism, but also make it much harder to port a rhythm from one keyboard to another and have it sound the same.  Most of the time it can still be done with some manual correction and adjustment.  But in a few cases, it's just not possible because there is no equivalent function.  Plus, there are some capabilities that Casio rhythms have (for example, DSPs, filters, drum substitutions) that Yamaha doesn't.

[Silvano Silva]

17 hours ago, Mclandy said:

I'm very familiar with jososoft (I used to have a Yamaha keyboard, too), but note in the web site title that it is the "Unofficial Yamaha Keyboard Resource Site".  In other words, the documentation and tools on that site are not based on anything that Yamaha released, but on the work, mostly of one person (Jorgen Sorensen), who experimented and figured out the formats.  From there, he and many others have created a variety of tools.  The format is not "open", but it has been reverse-engineered.  Yamaha does not support it, but it has not seriously tried to discourage it, either.  Because Yamaha uses standard MIDI tracks (in fact, a Style file is simply a standard MIDI file with extra Yamaha information added at the end), most of the content can be easily imported on other keyboards, even without knowing a lot about the Yamaha-specific data.  So really, it's not that Yamaha and Casio are handling things that differently,  but rather:

1. There has been more reverse-engineering work done on the Yamaha format by 3rd parties, over a longer period of time.  The Style format has actually been around long enough that they've had to break compatibility with older versions a couple of times.
2. Yamaha "Style" format is still built on top of the standard MIDI file format, so it naturally interoperates with other MIDI tools.  Unfortunately, Casio's Rhythm format is not.  I don't know why.

Of course, this site is nothing Official except for some links there that must have something made by Yamaha itself.

The STY is a wonderful file even the most recent ones even open in the Sonar DAW.

Roland Korg STY files and even Ketrons files are used in programs for conversion.

Why not the Casio AC7?

There would only be 3 alternatives:

1: Casio launch a Native AC7 Converter Editor program

2: Casio release new keyboards with updated AC7 in midi standard (Maybe an AC9 file Ha Ha)

3: A programmer hero appears who creates a Software that unlocks AC7 in its entirety so that we can create our most advanced Rhythms.

[Silvano Silva]

6 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

All .sty files I've downloaded simply need to have their suffix changed from .sty to .mid. voila, instant midi file. but of course, directly using the file as any casio style-needs modification. I've documented this years ago here. Thanks to Jorgen, who's website has been very useful for a variety of reasons and for quite awhile. Thanks to Chandler and others here for fully documenting how to do that and for the amazing software development here for the Casio arrangers, very impressive.

 

It was thanks to the program of the friends of the Site that I was able to edit a Rhythm of the MZ-X.

I changed the dynamics in the event edit. If we have the advanced access to the AC7 file,

it would be of great value to Casio because of course the Rhythms created by the programmers

[Akshansh - Alex]

There is also a thing, we cannot automate any part of the rhythms as other keyboards.

 

Casio locked that thing also even from it flagship keyboard MZ-X500

 

When I loaded that preset "automated" rhythm (Deep Trance) with 'Fixed Data' on CT-X5000, it perfectly working. But, when I copied the data and changed it from Fixed to Recorded, the automation of the rhythm is disabled automatically. Where other keyboard have the options to automate any part of the Rhythm or Style. I will hoping if we get this function on the MZ-X500 or upcoming Flagship keyboards like MZ-X500. 🙂