Ridley Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Hello! I've got a beautiful old VZ-1 in my stack and I'm having an awful time getting it to load sysex files. I'm not having any trouble with receiving them, but every time I try to transmit, I receive the message "Load error check system!" I have MIDI turned on with the switch on the back panel. I have write protect disabled. I've confirmed that the ports that I'm sending and receiving on match. I've set menu 3 page 2 to "Load", "MIDI", and I've tried all three setting (voice, opmem, and v+op). I'm using 128 buffers of 44,000 bytes in size. I've tried sending using MidiQuest and Midi-Ox and get the same result. Anyone have any experience with this and know what I might be doing wrong? Thank you! Ridley 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 WHAT kind of USB-Midi interface are you using and what OS are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridley Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 Thanks Joe! I'm using a Behringer UMC404HD for the interface and I'm running Windows 10. I'm not having any trouble sending and receiving to my DW8000 or SQ80, but the VZ-1 is only receiving successfully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Hmm, ok, so far your rig checks out and like you said, you have success with the other keys. Check your VZ1 battery and make sure you did not end up with a leaky battery. You say you can RECEIVE sysex? So you mean You download a VZ1 patch from the internet and you can SEND it TO the VZ1 and it loads successfully into temp ram, and then you can SAVE the patch to a user location with no issues? If that is so, then you may need to do some research on the max baud rate you can set the VZ1 midi transmit(MIDI OUT PORT). Also check that in midi options in the VZ1 you have turned OFF the midi filters for EVERYTHING. For both the MIDI RECEIVE(MIDI IN PORT), and MIDI TRANSMIT(MIDI OUT PORT). Then set your daw to record on the midi same midi channel you want to SEND a midi bulk dump(old term for sysex), from the VZ to the DAW. You may need to set your VZ1 to omni mode to send on ALL channels at once cause I suspect the VZ1 may only use one mixed channel for sysex like Midi channel 16 or 11 or 1. I am assuming the VZ1 is 8 part multitimberal? Check those filters most of all.. Now if the issue is that you are trying to LOAD a patch from the Computer TO the VZ1? Then that IS a different issue and without me being in front of your rig, I can not really help there as in that case, you have to set your DAW midi OUT settings accordingly. ALSO, some DAW apps will NOT transmit sysex correctly to some gear! IE My YAMAHA DX200/AN200 groove boxes from 2001 will NOT send or receive midi bulk dump correctly to the Computer and receive the same from the computer with some Midi sequencer apps. I had to find an old YAMAHA branded sequencer app to make it work. Now using Midiquest midi bulk librarian app you need the VZ1 instrument def file which you can download from the internet free from what I can remember from user group sites.. For the VZ1 to RECEIVE a sysex message correctly, you need to set the MIDI IN/RECEIVE sections of your VZ1 correctly to receive ALL data. And on the DAW on the PC, you need to make sure the midi PORT, channel, etc are correct. In Midiquest, the VZ1 def file should map all that out for you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 I think we both may be wrong with the VZ1.. Like the CZ1 and FZ1, I think.. not fully sure, but I think the OLD Casio synths did NOT respond to SYSEX only YAMAHA and those other synths you mentioned. Casio used midi bulk dump per patch? Though doesn't the VZ1 have a floppy drive?? Man I wish I had NOT sold my VZ1 back in 2005. @IanBCan you confirm all this? The VZ1 is like the other Casio synths in that they did NOT accept sysex but could dump it? And WHAT can the VZ1 accept for loading patches from the net? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanB Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 @pianokeyjoe @Ridley According to the manual (included below in this post) it receives and sends tone sysex data in Normal and Combi modes. I've never used or owned a VZ so have no personal experience I'm afraid. Casio VZ-1_MIDI_Sysex_Manual.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Ok, so it DOES do sysex unlike Casio CZ... Well in that case please check your settings as per my above instructions. I think there is something simple that is being overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) No floppy drive in the VZ series, only an RC RAM/ ROM card slot. The FZ series did use a floppy drive, with the FZ-20M being equipped with a SCSI connector/ interface. Edited June 14, 2022 by Chas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridley Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 Thank y'all (I'm a newbie, so I'm limited to one post a day). I do have MIDI-OX set to send on all channels. The VZ is set to channel 3 and it doesn't have an omni mode for some reason. My sense is it's probably a baud or a handshake issue as I get the error message immediately, even when I drop to small packet sizes with a short delay between them. I'll mess with the rates and see if I can figure anything out. This is really weird. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 You have both midi in and out connected simultaneously when you are using a USB midi device such as the Behringer. In the early days of midi, with din connectors for both receiving and transmitting data-with older devices, sometimes I would need to disconnect one or the other din cable-computers were much slower-and midi data protocol used something called "CRC"-cyclic redundancy checking"-a form of multiplexing where the devices would not complete the data reception/transmission until CRC showed no errors. It is possible (I don't have the VZ-1 though) when you send data to the VZ-1-it will not complete the reception because the computer is waiting for a response back from the VZ in order to send the data, or the VZ-1 is sending the CRC messages back-but I'm not sure USB midi recognizes these older CRC messages, and that might be stopping the loading of data. I am just trying a guess here. Or it could be that the Behringer/Windows machine is so fast-that the VZ-1 is crashing from trying to process what is probably a very small midi message-it's midi baud rate internally might not be capable of dealing with these much faster baud rates with both midi in and out connected through usb, same problem. Sort of a midi head-on collision. I recall another midi trick that would solve these baud rate problems-some of us would have to use older, slower computers (yep!) for early midi devices that could not process midi computer data quickly enough. Crude, but sometimes all that could be done. sorry if I'm way off here, but couldn't help myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 @RidleySo you are having issues with SENDING a sysex TO the VZ1, not FROM the VZ1? I am still not getting what you are saying about loading/transmitting from the VZ1. If you are trying to SEND a sysex TO the VZ1 and it is crapping out, then as @Jokeyman123stated, it could be a issue with the Computer and USB midi rig being too fast for the VZ1 to handle the incoming data. Now you need to set you VZ1 midi receive and midi transmit channels to 1(midi channel ONE). Set the computer to midi channel ONE as well. Then try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridley Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 I'm able to receive sysex from the VZ-1, but not send to it. The error message I receive is on the VZ-1 itself. I like the idea of a CRC check; I've never done that over MIDI, but I'm familiar enough with the method. And, I have lots of old computers. I suspect strongly the computer/interface are sending data too fast for the VZ to recognize. I'll give it a shot in the morning, and thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Ridley said: I'm able to receive sysex from the VZ-1, but not send to it. The error message I receive is on the VZ-1 itself. I like the idea of a CRC check; I've never done that over MIDI, but I'm familiar enough with the method. And, I have lots of old computers. I suspect strongly the computer/interface are sending data too fast for the VZ to recognize. I'll give it a shot in the morning, and thank you! Ok! Yes! So like I said about my YAMAHA AN200/DX200 groove boxes.. I had to use a specific older YAMAHA branded software sequencer just to make the transmission work, but I was able to use a USB midi interface with Windows 7 called Midisport 1x1. So your use of MIDIQUEST and the VZ1 instrument file(which I can not state enough, you need)will do the trick if you can use an older midi interface like the MIDISPORT 1x1 which is a fully midi compliant usb 1.1 device. It requires drivers in Windows though and I never used win10 before so that presents its own issues. Do not use Midi ox to send data to your keyboard.. it will not work. I tried and failed EVERY TIME for those 2 units. It really IS a question of finding the right combo for the instruments. I have several older computers(MAC and PC) that can use an old Soundblaster live card with the 15 pin joystick midi port and a 15 pin game port to midi cable from Creative that IS full on midi compliant. So yeah, maybe time to dust off one of those systems of yours. Use Windows 7 if you decide on USB midi.. If you are using Soundblaster gameport midi, use Windows 98se as Windows XP and 2K have issues with sysex midi sometimes.. Not always, but sometimes(right when you need it most right?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Right Joe....I kept my midisport 2 x 2-because it has a true optocoupler chip in it, plus a buffer memory that seems to keep the midi packets from overloading older midi devices/keyboards. And drivers-right. I have one windows 10 machine, but d*** if every time Windows gets a new upgrade (haven't even looked at Windows 11 yet) it seems to cause driver problems for music functions. I use Coolsoft as a virtual synth in Windows, because it has a midi mapper that Windows eliminated after XP, for reasons that were never clear, but that can be necessary to configure midi ports in and out of Windows, especially if you are having driver issues and can't even tell what is wrong. And of course, the driver you had working in XP, 7, Vista or even 8 (uugh!) no longer exist for 10 until the manufacturer for your device can re-engineer one that does. And many times don't, until enough users complain that there isn't one! How is that Behringer driver-is it specifically for 10 or are you using a W7 driver, that could be a problem too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridley Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 Goodwill has a Tascam US-122 with the original box and driver CDs, all from 2003. That sounds about right, eh? The Behringer is (mostly) aces. I don't have any trouble with any of my other machines, although I have had to reinstall the driver a couple of times as switching USB ports on the PC. It's the W10 driver and it's...fine? It's very...Behringer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Ridley said: Goodwill has a Tascam US-122 with the original box and driver CDs, all from 2003. That sounds about right, eh? The Behringer is (mostly) aces. I don't have any trouble with any of my other machines, although I have had to reinstall the driver a couple of times as switching USB ports on the PC. It's the W10 driver and it's...fine? It's very...Behringer. If that Tascam is still there say, ooh tomorrow? GO GIT IT LOL! I had 2 of them and one got stolen in 2017. It is a great unit and is VERY compatible. I do not know about Win10 but on Windows Xp SP2 it worked absolutely great. I reckon in Windows 7 it would work great too. As a matter of fact, using a P4 or Core 2 duo with XP pro and that Tascam you will be aces! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridley Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 I won the auction for $19, so it's just waiting for the shipping! Thanks y'all! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Blooper Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 FWIW You have to turn on System Exclusive by going to Menu 3/Screen 4 (MIDI DATA) and changing 'Exclusive: DIS' to 'Exclusive: ENA'. It is set to DIS by default. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianokeyjoe Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 10 hours ago, Dr. Blooper said: FWIW You have to turn on System Exclusive by going to Menu 3/Screen 4 (MIDI DATA) and changing 'Exclusive: DIS' to 'Exclusive: ENA'. It is set to DIS by default. And well... there ya have it lol! And you now have a more compatible USB to Midi/Audio interface just in case. I knew there was SOMETHING that could be done on the VZ1 to enable sysex midi. Congrats on the auction and on finding the solution!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridley Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 OK, so...I got the new/old Tascam interface, but I wound up using the Behringer, putting a 50 millisecond delay between packets, and using channel 1 no matter what (channel 3 should have worked but didn't). She's swapping patching like a looney now. Even got MIDI-OX to work, but Midiquest is much, much better for swapping patches around. Thanks ya'll! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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