Suggestions for future Firmware update

[Maddog]

Hi All,

 

I have a suggestion for a feature update.  Having seen videos on the CTX5000 it appears that you can type in a patch number rather than having to go through the various categories to get to a particular patch.  Is it possible to do the same on the CTS1000 & 500 models?.  I was thinking you could use the 5 buttons under the LCD display and have one increment the 100's another 10's and another 1's and another for select patch.

 

Also I have been thinking at some point maybe purchasing a desktop keyboard-less synth.  It would be nice to hook it up to my new CTS1000v, though without MIDI ports it will be tricky, if I don't want to go via a computer and audio interface.  With that in mind would it be possible to have a feature in an update which would allow you to use the Line-in & Line-outs as TRS to MIDI ports; that way you wouldn't need a MIDI port just a firmware update. I know this is possible because if you look at the Korg Volca2 that uses TRS-MIDI and you can buy a TRS-MIDI cable to connect the Volca2 to another MIDI device.  Yes you would loose the ability of using the Line-In and Line-out whilst connected to another device, but you could then use the Line-out of the connected device.

 

Thanks for reading.

[anotherscott]

On 5/1/2023 at 7:54 AM, Maddog said:

Also I have been thinking at some point maybe purchasing a desktop keyboard-less synth.  It would be nice to hook it up to my new CTS1000v, though without MIDI ports it will be tricky, if I don't want to go via a computer and audio interface.  With that in mind would it be possible to have a feature in an update which would allow you to use the Line-in & Line-outs as TRS to MIDI ports; that way you wouldn't need a MIDI port just a firmware update. I know this is possible...

No, such an adapter would not be possible.  It's not about the physical connector, it's about what the physical connector is connected to inside the unit. A TRS (or any connector) is just a connection point, its capabilities depend on what it is it is wired to inside the device, and you can't change the wiring with a firmware update. (Also, the Casio doesn't have TRS line connections, it has TS, but that's moot because the concept doesn't work in the first place.)

 

On 5/1/2023 at 7:54 AM, Maddog said:

Yes you would loose the ability of using the Line-In and Line-out whilst connected to another device, but you could then use the Line-out of the connected device.

Also not possible, since MIDI connections carry no audio.

 

But to actually solve the problem at hand, if you want to connect a 5-pin MIDI device to your CT without having to use a computer,  you can use CME WIDI devices to establish bluetooth communication between them; or you can use a standalone MIDI host device (like the ones from Kenton or Camola), or you can use an iPhone or iPad (which essentially is a computer, but may be less off-putting to you than connecting to a traditional Mac/PC).

[Maddog]

Hi thanks for the reply.  I know the line outs are Mono, wouldn't a Y cable (TS-TRS) not create a stereo output?.  Is the Audio In and Head Phones not stereo?.

I did know about the Kenton and others acting as a MIDI host, though some seem to have a compatibility list, so not ideal.  Yes I could use an iPad as a host that is true but then rather than purchase a desktop synth it may be better to use a software synth on the iPad, which is fine as long as you can get a software version of the device you are interested in connecting to.

 

If you connected your keyboard to another device then when you play your keyboard you really want to be playing the sounds in the other device, as long as that device has line outs, then wouldn't the sound produced come out of the line out of that device?.

 

Just out of interest has anyone tried using the Korg iM1 or other iPad apps to connect with a CTS keyboard?.  Does it work well?.

[anotherscott]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:58 AM, Maddog said:

Hi thanks for the reply.  I know the line outs are Mono, wouldn't a Y cable (TS-TRS) not create a stereo output?.

 

A Y-cable that connected a pair of TS audio connections to a single TRS connector could create a stereo connection, i.e. via a left connection, right connection, and common ground. (But this is just for audio, nothing related to MIDI.)

 

On 5/3/2023 at 2:58 AM, Maddog said:

Is the Audio In and Head Phones not stereo?

 

Yes, those are TRS stereo audio connections. (Though again, they don't connect to anything that could send or receive MIDI.)

 

On 5/3/2023 at 2:58 AM, Maddog said:

If you connected your keyboard to another device then when you play your keyboard you really want to be playing the sounds in the other device, as long as that device has line outs, then wouldn't the sound produced come out of the line out of that device?

 

If you connected your keyboard to another device via MIDI, then yes, the sounds of that second keyboard would come out of the line out of that keyboard, but the sound of the first keyboard (the one whose keys you are playing) would not. 

[Maddog]

Hi,

 

I noticed a Phones On/Off in the settings can this be used to have a stereo jack connected to the head phones jack whilst leaving the speakers active?.  Would this allow a single connection to my audio interface, rather than using both mono outs?.  Currently I have left and right mono outs connected to my audio interface.  Would the output from the phones jack be lower quality than the TS outs?.

 

thanks

Edited May 18, 2023 by Maddog

[Brad Saucier]

7 hours ago, Maddog said:

Hi,

 

I noticed a Phones On/Off in the settings can this be used to have a stereo jack connected to the head phones jack whilst leaving the speakers active?.

 

Yes.  

 

7 hours ago, Maddog said:

Would the output from the phones jack be lower quality than the TS outs?.

 

No.  It would be the same quality. 

[anotherscott]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:46 AM, Maddog said:

Would this allow a single connection to my audio interface, rather than using both mono outs?. 

Yes, *IF* your audio interface has a stereo TRS line input. (Unlikely, I believe.) Otherwise, you would need a splitter ("Y") cable to go from the single TRS headphone output to a pair of mono inputs in your interface.

On 5/18/2023 at 2:46 AM, Maddog said:

Would the output from the phones jack be lower quality than the TS outs?.

For the purpose you describe? Possibly. The impedance and amplified output level of the headphone jack is designed for, well, headphones, so there could be some slight degradation of signal when used for this other purpose. At the minimum, you'd have to keep the on-board ("headphone") volume quite low, though you'd be (unnecessarily) sending your signal through it's small built-in headphone amp regardless.

[Maddog]

Hi,

 

Yes I think you are right.  I wasn't sure if the audio interface would pick up stereo or not, they are normally used with mono jacks.  I know they accept XLR cables which I believe use 3 wires so wasn't sure.

 

thanks.

[anotherscott]

On 5/31/2023 at 8:31 AM, Maddog said:

Yes I think you are right.  I wasn't sure if the audio interface would pick up stereo or not, they are normally used with mono jacks.  I know they accept XLR cables which I believe use 3 wires so wasn't sure.

right, the XLR inputs on an audio interface are balanced microphone inputs., and yes, they have 3 wires. While it's not technically impossible to use an XLR connector for an unbalanced stereo signal, that would be a very unusual thing to do, and wiring it to do that would prevent it from being used as a mic input.

[Just Alex]

Based on past casio experience, none of suggestions were ever considered, so....

 

[Maddog]

It's the first Casio I've owned so I couldn't comment on that.

[Maddog]

Quote

But to actually solve the problem at hand, if you want to connect a 5-pin MIDI device to your CT without having to use a computer,  you can use CME WIDI devices to establish bluetooth communication between them; or you can use a standalone MIDI host device (like the ones from Kenton or Camola), or you can use an iPhone or iPad (which essentially is a computer, but may be less off-putting to you than connecting to a traditional Mac/PC).

Does the CME WIDI connect to the Casio Bluetooth adaptor shipped with the CTS1000V?.

[Brad Saucier]

5 hours ago, Maddog said:

It's the first Casio I've owned so I couldn't comment on that.

 

Casio has implemented many user suggestions in the past, most recently with a firmware update to the CT-S500 and 1000V.  

[Maddog]

I get replies to questions that I ask on the forum, which is good.  If somethings aren't doable then so be it.

[anotherscott]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:36 AM, Maddog said:

Does the CME WIDI connect to the Casio Bluetooth adaptor shipped with the CTS1000V?.

 

You put one CME WIDI Jack or WIDI Master piece on your device that has the 5-pin connector. On the CT-S1000V, you may be able to use Casio's supplied bluetooth dongle, or you may have to buy a CME Uhost, which may have to be connected to the Casio's "other" USB connection (the micro), not the one Casio's own adapter plugs into.

[Maddog]

17 hours ago, anotherscott said:

You put one CME WIDI Jack or WIDI Master piece on your device that has the 5-pin connector. On the CT-S1000V, you may be able to use Casio's supplied bluetooth dongle, or you may have to buy a CME Uhost, which may have to be connected to the Casio's "other" USB connection (the micro), not the one Casio's own adapter plugs into.

That's pretty much what I thought.  I know the keyboard has a pairing option but on the iPad and desktop it never seems to pair by itself, you have to select the Casio Bluetooth adapter from the device you are trying to connect with; I don't think that would be possible using the WIDI Jack on a non Bluetooth equipped device.  I would think you would need 2 WIDI Bluetooth adapters in order to get a pairing.  I thought I would ask the question in the hope someone has already tested this mixed combination.

[Just Alex]

It is possible to program an arduino pro micro that way, that it will be USB midi from one side, and classical MIDI IN/OUT from the other "side". 

[Maddog]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:14 AM, Just Alex said:

It is possible to program an arduino pro micro that way, that it will be USB midi from one side, and classical MIDI IN/OUT from the other "side". 

 

Yes there are newer devices like the RP2040 which are dual core ARM based.  The problem with these are most builds I have seen still need a Host, so are generally connected to your computer.  I think the Doremidi USB Midi Host maybe worth looking at.  I think the biggest issue I can see with these type of solutions are they have a compatability list even though USB and Midi are supposed to be standardised.  These are far cheaper than the Kenton version.

[Maddog]

I forgot to mention that you can send Midi over TS as well as TRS.  I still think this would be an ideal way of getting around the problem of a Midi Controller with no Midi ports.  If you can send Audio through TRS or TS then why not Midi Signals.  I think type A maybe becoming the standard these days.  More and more devices are using it, Korg uses it on many of it's devices, Roland use it on some of their devices.  It's an ideal solution if you think about it.

 

Is the USB A port on the CTS500&1000 keyboards just used for 2 things Bluetooth & USB Memory sticks or can it be used for other things, like connecting directly to another USB enabled Midi device?.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Maddog

[anotherscott]

4 hours ago, Maddog said:

I forgot to mention that you can send Midi over TS as well as TRS. 

MIDI requires 3 points of connection, not 2. 

 

4 hours ago, Maddog said:

I still think this would be an ideal way of getting around the problem of a Midi Controller with no Midi ports.  If you can send Audio through TRS or TS then why not Midi Signals. 

You can already send either audio or MIDI through TRS. But you can't send both. TRS is merely a connector. It gets physically wired to different electronics depending on whether you're using it for audio or MIDI.

 

4 hours ago, Maddog said:

Is the USB A port on the CTS500&1000 keyboards just used for 2 things Bluetooth & USB Memory sticks or can it be used for other things, like connecting directly to another USB enabled Midi device?.

It does not function as a host for another USB enabled MIDI device, AFAIK.

[Maddog]

19 hours ago, anotherscott said:

MIDI requires 3 points of connection, not 2. 

 

Yes but it only really uses 2.  The Vcc and Data.  If you take a look at the site  minimidi.world.  It covers Type A, B and C (TS version).  I think pin 2 sounds like it may be a ground.

 

19 hours ago, anotherscott said:

You can already send either audio or MIDI through TRS. But you can't send both. TRS is merely a connector. It gets physically wired to different electronics depending on whether you're using it for audio or MIDI.

 

You wouldn't need to be sending both.  If you made it a configurable option in the settings, if you say enabled TRS/Midi then you could flag the code so that it only sent out Midi data over the TRS/TS(via a splitter to TRS).  Remember it's a CPU connected to all the outputs and inputs controlled via the firmware, it can only do what the software tells it to do.

 

19 hours ago, anotherscott said:

It does not function as a host for another USB enabled MIDI device, AFAIK.

 

Do you know what the

"[SETTNG]
< MIDI In 1-5Ch Port >
           C"

is for in the settings?, I cannot find any reference to it either in the manual or on the web.  It is switchable from 'C' to 'A'.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Maddog

[anotherscott]

On 6/17/2023 at 2:39 AM, Maddog said:

 

Yes but it only really uses 2.  The Vcc and Data.  If you take a look at the site  minimidi.world.  It covers Type A, B and C (TS version).  I think pin 2 sounds like it may be a ground.

 

Non-standard. I would not assume compatibility with anything other than the specific things it was made for.

 

On 6/17/2023 at 2:39 AM, Maddog said:

 

You wouldn't need to be sending both.  If you made it a configurable option in the settings, if you say enabled TRS/Midi then you could flag the code so that it only sent out Midi data over the TRS/TS(via a splitter to TRS).  Remember it's a CPU connected to all the outputs and inputs controlled via the firmware, it can only do what the software tells it to do.

 

Audio outputs are analog. Analog audio is not generated or routed by the CPU. Once the audio signal exists (i.e. post DAC), the CPU is removed from the equation. This gets back to one of the first things I said. A connector is just a connector... what it connects TO matters. What comes out of the 1/4" jack is not determined by the CPU, it is determined by what the jack is physically wired to. Inside the board, a MIDI connection connects to digital circuitry for transporting a digital data stream, an audio connection connects to analog circuitry for transporting analog audio. While a TRS jack can be used for either, the jack would be physically wired to one set of electronics or the other, not both. 

 

On 6/17/2023 at 2:39 AM, Maddog said:

Do you know what the

"[SETTNG]
< MIDI In 1-5Ch Port >
           C"

is for in the settings?, I cannot find any reference to it either in the manual or on the web.  It is switchable from 'C' to 'A'.

 

Discussed at https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/21937-ct-s500-ct-s1000v-firmware-update-now-available/

 

[Maddog]

16 hours ago, anotherscott said:

Audio outputs are analog. Analog audio is not generated or routed by the CPU. Once the audio signal exists (i.e. post DAC), the CPU is removed from the equation. This gets back to one of the first things I said. A connector is just a connector... what it connects TO matters. What comes out of the 1/4" jack is not determined by the CPU, it is determined by what the jack is physically wired to. Inside the board, a MIDI connection connects to digital circuitry for transporting a digital data stream, an audio connection connects to analog circuitry for transporting analog audio. While a TRS jack can be used for either, the jack would be physically wired to one set of electronics or the other, not both. 

 

So inside the keyboard the CPU has no involvement in making the sound coming from either the speakers or the Audio Out?.  I understand the role of the Digital To Analogue Converter; if for instance you could record output generated via the TRS MIDI Out could it not be played back through say a speaker?. If you could record it and played it back to the TRS MIDI In, would it not be recognized as a valid MIDI signal?.

[anotherscott]

5 hours ago, Maddog said:

So inside the keyboard the CPU has no involvement in making the sound coming from either the speakers or the Audio Out?.

Pretty much correct. CPU deals with digital signals only (ones and zeroes), not analog signals. Once the DAC converts the digital signal to analog, the CPU can no longer do anything with it. 

 

The reason I qualified the answer by saying "pretty much" is because there can be digital control over analog routing (e.g.to route a given audio signal to one jack or another, or to enable/disable the speakers). But again, "a connector is just a connector... what it connects TO matters", e.g. software cannot control which physical connector an analog signal goes to unless an analog signal is physically wired to that connector. 

 

5 hours ago, Maddog said:

 if for instance you could record output generated via the TRS MIDI Out could it not be played back through say a speaker?

 

Being digital, MIDI cannot be played back through a speaker, it would have to be converted to analog first. And since MIDI data has no audio component whatsoever (it contains no digital audio data that can be converted to analog), even assuming you found a way to convert its digital content to analog in order to hear it through a speaker, it would sound like noise.  (Think dial-up modems.)

 

5 hours ago, Maddog said:

If you could record it and played it back to the TRS MIDI In, would it not be recognized as a valid MIDI signal?.

 

Picking up from the previous point, technically it is possible to convert MIDI data to an analog signal, to record it as audio (which sounds like noise), and then play it back in such a way that it is converted from analog back to digital MIDI. Back in the 80s, there were devices that could convert MIDI data to an analog signal that could be recorded to cassette tape, and then played back into the device. But this required additional electronics in the device, e.g.  you didn't simply run a wire from the cassette player's audio out to the device's MIDI in , the device would have had an audio input designed for this purpose, which would take the analog version of the MIDI signal and convert it to digital. Again, what a connector connects TO matters. The MIDI jack would not be connected to any kind of analog processing capability... analog signals get processed through an analog signal chain, and digital signals get processed digitally, and any time you need to get from one to the other, you can't just connect a wire, you need a converter (DAC digital to analog, or ADC in the other direction). 

 

 

 

 

[Maddog]

O.K. that makes more sense.  Thanks for the explanation.  I don't suppose there is away of telling the DAC to just leave the serial data alone and not convert it?.

The USB A port, must be receiving MIDI data that has not been turned from a Square wave to a Sine wave by the DAC?.  If the Bluetooth is transmitting that data I guess it must still be serial data.  The Bluetooth Adapter transmits MIDI but also Audio so it must be able to either root around the DAC or tell the DAC not to convert the data to analogue on that port.  Maybe there is away of taking that data and feeding not to Bluetooth but to a converter using something like an RP2040 board and feeding it to either a TRS of MIDI Port.  I wonder if MIDI is sent to that USB port only when you enable Bluetooth?.  Maybe Casio could build a board for this USB port to convert the signal to 5 pin MIDI or TRS or both?.