Piano sounds continued

[Rocknrolldentist]

Got it!

[Pete4Beat]

Hello guys!

After i got my 5S,i was looking for a good bright piano sound more for pop,funky,smoothjazz style.Internal,there s a lot of good piano sounds.For example,0-0 piano it sounds really good,but is a little mellow.The rock piano it sounds also good,but is not fat enough.Finaly,i found on forum a ZPF piano tone named The way...

Probably the full name is The way it is - Bruce Hornsby. Its a combined piano,but if you lay down the pad or strings,you get a superb piano sound.Try it on!

It goes very well thru the mix and it has a nice personality.

Would it be nice to have the same resonance like on Yamaha s pianos.

I am really satisfied with my 5S.

All the best to you and good luck with your giggs or projects!Pete

[aron]

Modern Grand is good too. It's not going to sound like a Yamaha because it's a Steinway.

[Rocknrolldentist]

Hi Pete and Aron--Where did you find "the Way" and "Modern Grand" downloads?? I'd love to try them.....

[BrianH]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading the above, especially the ww3 close encounter, which was skillfully avoided.  Rockandrolldentist & co are obviously blessed/plagued with excellent hearing.  My partner is similarly blessed(!!) she spends a lot of her time worrying about various inexplicable noises in her car, which I can't hear and neither can her garage!  While I drive serenely along in my Dacia Duster in splendid peace and quiet and at home enjoy the super piano sounds of my px5s.

 

BrianH  

[Choppin]

I'd be curious to hear a recording of the PX-5s piano sound with the bell tone, and another piano sound (from whatever source)where the tone does not exist.  RNRdentist can maybe point out what or where the ringing overtone is occurring in the recording.

 

Also, try the DSP effect "Piano Effect".  Adjust the lid, the reflection, and the other levels and see what you get.  Make sure reverb, delay, and chorus are off.  Also try adjusting the resonance and the cutoff in the filter settings.

 

Also check the System Resonance.  There's string resonance, damper resonance, and damper pedal noise.  Your high pitched ringing may be hiding in reflections or resonance.  Look for effects that amplify or exaggerate harmonics.

[Rocknrolldentist]

Hi Choppin--I will absolutely try your suggestions.  I did try to change the resonance, velocity sense, damper resonance etc with the filters and it did nothing--Am i doing something wrong or should changing those parameters effect my piano sound. I truly want to resolve this problem because I've tried other keyboards and with the exception of th piano, the 5x-s kicks ass. For all of you other folks who can't hear what I'm speaking of, a little intelligence (like Mr. Choppin) would be appreciated rather than sarcasm. I know what I hear, and if i can solve the issue, I can, then, totally enjoy the Px--I don't give up easily!!

[Choppin]

Can you record the PX and attach it and point out (maybe the place in time) where you particularly hear the ringing?  And also include another piano example that you would say has no ringing so people understand what you are refering to?
 

[aron]

>a little intelligence (like Mr. Choppin) would be appreciated rather than sarcasm.

 

Well lets think about this. Was it you (I could be incorrect) that said if you recorded your piano sound and played it back through your computer speakers the bell sound is not there? Think about it. What does that mean?

 

Didn't you also say that when you changed a number of parameters in the tone editor you couldn't hear the difference? When you turned up resonance and adjusted filter cutoff you didn't hear the difference - that's why you were asking what it does?

 

This is not meant to be a slight at all, but despite being told repeatedly that the basic piano sound cannot be changed - this thread keeps going. Whatever you are hearing - most people do not hear it and you cannot hear it when you record your piano sound and play it back on your own speakers.

 

This "bell tone" is not going to go away because it whatever you are hearing is in the basic sample. You can cut away frequencies etc... but all you will do is ruin the piano sound. The only answer is to get another keyboard that doesn't have the bell tone or can load alternate samples. The PX-5S is not it.

 

Think about it. Let's say the piano plays a cat meow, but you want a dog. You can EQ all you want - you can alter the envelopes and try to make it sound like a dog, but the basic recording is a cat. Maybe with extreme DSP and the right morphing algorithms and "tone matching" technology, you might be able to turn the cat into a dog, but it will always be a cat at the basic level. You won't be able to turn the cat into a dog using a lowpass filter or EQ. You can speed up and slow down the envelopes but it won't change the cat into a dog.

 

The questions you ask seem simple, but they require knowledge of how keyboards store their samples. It requires knowledge of what you can and cannot do with subtractive synthesis and the limitations imposed by tones verses hex tones. It requires knowledge of how layers are played and switched via velocity or crossfades. It requires basic knowledge of what a lowpass filter with resonance does.

 

No one doubts that you hear something. But are you listening when we say that the basic samples cannot be changed and the sound you hear is inherent in the samples of this instrument?

 

I am no stranger to not liking something in a keyboard that cannot be changed. My Juno G couldn't make a decent electric piano sound. I couldn't take it and sold it. I know how you feel.

 

[Rocknrolldentist]

hey ARON-- THANKS for your post. THE EMPATHY IS TRULY APPRECIATED. I did go out and buy another keyboard..a  Kurzweil artis se--- the px kills it hands down with the EP sounds and other assorted samples.  it is easier use, however, ands does have amuch better piano sample. I probably will keep the casio and return the Kurzweil. 2 other downloads were mentioned... modern grand and 'the way'--- do you know where i can find these? well, i'mgoingback to my cat and see if i can make it sound a little more like a dog (lol)... looking forwatrd to hearing from you.....

[Display Name]

33 minutes ago, Rocknrolldentist said:

 2 other downloads were mentioned... modern grand and 'the way'--- 

 

They're in the download section of this site. 

[aron]

>the px kills it hands down with the EP sounds and other assorted samples

 

If the Artist is anything like the PC361 I had, I have to disagree. The electric piano sounds were great! Very dynamic and very, very useable. The Kurzweil string sounds were really great - much better than the PX-5S - especially for live and the VAST engine is way more powerful and analog sounding than the PX.

There is no keyboard (other than Kronos) that is more powerful than the VAST engine in Kurzweil keyboards.

 

If there is one keyboard that can turn a cat into a dog, it's Kurzweil.

[Brad Saucier]

[Rocknrolldentist]

Hi ARON- i agree the kurweil EP sounds are great , but they are limited to 8 rhodes' and 6-8 wurlys--  not nearly as much variety as the privia!  Still checking out the cat/dog trans-species surgery!!  (I want  to keep my privia.....

[Rocknrolldentist]

Hello BradMZ-- I've searched all of the dowloads (twice)-- both the forum and the community ones and can't locate "the way" anywhere--Help!!

[aron]

>but they are limited to 8 rhodes' and 6-8 wurlys

 

Again, there seems to be a misunderstanding. Like the fact that the Privia only has a few piano samples, you can make unlimited variations of the piano via programming. Same with the Artis SE. If you find the Kurzweil forum you will be able to download tons of programs as well. If you contact Dave Weiser http://www.weisersound.com

He can hook you up with awesome sounds. Come to think of it, if anything can be done about your "bell tone", HE is the one that could solve it.

 

Contact him. He is a professional programmer.

[aron]

Also, I know you said that there are only a few electric pianos in there - but I saw the list. Kurzweil nailed those sounds - the electric pianos are really great and dynamic. I used them all the time. The dynamic polyphony is the best in the business so even though it has "only" 128 voices, it plays like more. The only negative I had with my Kurzweil was that it was heavy and the airlines kept abusing my travel case and it caused problems with the keyboard. Otherwise I would still be using it.

I got the Kronos as a backup to the Kurzweil and the PX because my S90ES was way too heavy to use with limited polyphony. 

The effects on the Kurzweil are also much higher quality than the PX effects and the programming potential is unmatched except for the Kronos.

That being said, the PX-5S is fun and light and sounds fine. Even the piano believe it or not! :-)

[Rocknrolldentist]

Aron-- you are awesome for conversing with me. All i'm saying is the Artis only comes with 16 factory preset EPs but the casio comes with triple that amount--and i must say,i think they sound amazing!  By the way, are you able to locate a download called 'the way'-- i heard it was great but i cant find it.....

[aron]

I can't find it either. Please try and contact Dave Weiser - if anyone can "fix" the piano, he can. It's worth it.

[Display Name]

The Way is a preset but if you've overwritten you can re-download from download area of this site. Modern grand is also a preset but it is a piano tone and not a stage setting (unless someone also made a SS from modern pno tone but I didn't see it).

[Rocknrolldentist]

thanks to both of you!

[michaeln2]

21 hours ago, aron said:

Also, I know you said that there are only a few electric pianos in there - but I saw the list. Kurzweil nailed those sounds - the electric pianos are really great and dynamic. I used them all the time. The dynamic polyphony is the best in the business so even though it has "only" 128 voices, it plays like more. The only negative I had with my Kurzweil was that it was heavy and the airlines kept abusing my travel case and it caused problems with the keyboard. Otherwise I would still be using it.

I got the Kronos as a backup to the Kurzweil and the PX because my S90ES was way too heavy to use with limited polyphony. 

The effects on the Kurzweil are also much higher quality than the PX effects and the programming potential is unmatched except for the Kronos.

That being said, the PX-5S is fun and light and sounds fine. Even the piano believe it or not! :-)

Aron, have you played the Kurzweil PC3K88?     I am thinking of buying one as i have heard the V.A.S.T synth engine is something else. The electric pianos are one of my reasons for going the Kurzweil route.  Sadly, no dealers in my area stock Kurzweil so i cannot try before i buy.

[aron]

I have only played the PC361 which is the precursor to that keyboard. VAST is still amazing if you are a programmer. Kurzweil keyboards are not "bright". They are full sounding and more mellow in terms of high end content. That being said, there's a global EQ and you can make it brighter - I know I did. The electric pianos on the Kurzweil are great and I enjoyed the keyboard very much. I miss it, but the airlines had dropped it so the backlight didn't work so I couldn't use it on stage. I could have fixed it, but I sold it and bought the Korg Kross since it was only 9 pounds and so far the airlines are having a hard time breaking it. :-)

 

It took me a long time to like the Kurzweil piano, but eventually I did and I started using it on a lot of jazz gigs. I would have to say that for me, the PX-5S electric pianos and the strings are very, very weak to me. When compared to all my other keyboards, the sound/overall usability of the electric pianos and the strings are at the bottom. I use it and it does sound "ok" but there is a disconnect with these sounds for me. I really do like the piano - it was so great with the band last night!

[raymb1]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 2:17 PM, BradMZ said:

If you still have the original  settings, The Way is at 5-0.  If you've loaded the Alt settings, The Way is at 0-5.

[michaeln2]

On 28 April 2016 at 11:07 PM, aron said:

I have only played the PC361 which is the precursor to that keyboard. VAST is still amazing if you are a programmer. Kurzweil keyboards are not "bright". They are full sounding and more mellow in terms of high end content. That being said, there's a global EQ and you can make it brighter - I know I did. The electric pianos on the Kurzweil are great and I enjoyed the keyboard very much. I miss it, but the airlines had dropped it so the backlight didn't work so I couldn't use it on stage. I could have fixed it, but I sold it and bought the Korg Kross since it was only 9 pounds and so far the airlines are having a hard time breaking it. :-)

 

It took me a long time to like the Kurzweil piano, but eventually I did and I started using it on a lot of jazz gigs. I would have to say that for me, the PX-5S electric pianos and the strings are very, very weak to me. When compared to all my other keyboards, the sound/overall usability of the electric pianos and the strings are at the bottom. I use it and it does sound "ok" but there is a disconnect with these sounds for me. I really do like the piano - it was so great with the band last night!

 

Thank you aron,very helpful.  I like the acoustic pianos and some of the Wurly EP,s......it's the Rhodes EP,s that always leave me wanting more. The first 2 EP,s in bank 1 (Air electric piano) sound very dull to me.........but others rave about them so I suppose it's purely a matter of taste.  In almost every respect I am happy with the PX5s, it's just some of the Rhodes EP,s that I find a disappointment.

 

Thanks again.