Melody tone vs. hex tone

[mike71]

I have another question about hex layers and melody tones.

I think I have understood the hex layer philosophy. We have a bunch of digital oscillators that take samples from a rom an one could control them with a filter and a digital amplifier.

I could change the basic waveforms for each of the six oscillators.

 

When I change to melody tones, I don't know how to change the basic waveform, I could play with an LFO, a filter and an envelope, but the basic waveform is hidden.

I tried to personalize some piano tones and I got really awful and un-pianoish sounds. Maybe i have to select a factory built  tone that more or less seems to be a good approximation of what I am trying to  do and then save as an user tone.

 

In other words melody tones a hex tones are two completely separated synth engines that happen to be inside the same keyboard. 

 

[Brad Saucier]

Melody tones are basically waves.  Changing to another melody tone is changing waves, so yes, you should start with one that's close to the end result you want.  

[Jokeyman123]

I've been through this too and with Brad's help. You cannot see the raw wave making up a tone if you are in "tone edit" mode. There is a work-around. You can see and pick a raw wave if you edit a tone from within a hex layer. Seems a little strange, but if you are in the edit menus for any hex layer, you can open the database of raw wav samples and select whatever you want to work with. The downside imo is that you have to be in hex mode to see the basic raw wav samples even though these are going to be the same samples as are being used in a tone. You will also find-that some tones-especially pianos are made up of 2 or more wav samples which you would have to assign (I think) across the keys as you would if you are using a sampling keyboard nd again has to be from hex mode. I noticed this with the XW-P1 which also uses 2 or more samples to make up one piano tone as far as i recollect. There are other editing parameters available in hex mode that are also different than tone edit mode, some of which seem to be redundant but then the difference is that many of the hex editing pages are global for the entire hex layer, and some are not so there is potential for even wilder effects in hex mode than in tone edit mode...I rest my brain now until tomorrow!

[Jokeyman123]

 

Here is the post with details about this I had discussed with Brad-very good stuff. This is a very "deep" digital piano!

[mike71]

Ok, From the hex tone I could select a raw wave and work on it. On the other hand a melody tone could have more than one raw wave, but they are hidden.

So if I need a melody tone based on a sawtooth wave I have to start from a melody tone using a sawtooth and start from it.

The problem on the PX-5 is that you have four zones, but only two could use an hex layer, and if you use drums you lose one hex layer.

 

The advantage of the PX-5s is that you can easily attach an expander...

[Jokeyman123]

You can get pretty crazy......six sawtooth tones in one hex layer with different programming for each-then you can record (as AlenK mentioned) with up to 4 separate hex layers in one arrangement-I have recorded with at least 2 different hex layers but haven't tried 4. Tremendous possibilities for sound design-I only wish the envelopes had 8 stages, like the original CZ synths had-this is how you could create some pretty wild pitch and amp envelopes over time-I can't quite get there with the PX560. for example-with my old CZs, I could program "concrete" type effects-a motorcycle or car engine sound, then a crash or explosion sound, then a police siren-in one envelope, pretty cool if you like that kind of stuff. I can't change the pitch envelopes with enough steps to do this with the PX560-a minor quibble but then the 560 is not supposed to be a CZ synth, still a very customizable keyboard.

[mike71]

One of the problem of the PX-5S is that the documentation about how to use the synthesizer part is difficult to read and really concise.

It's a good documentation if you have a digital stage piano with some fixed piano sound an maybe some equalization.

It's not when you have a powerful synthesizer, because if one user can't make a mental map or a block diagram on how it works, will find making original sounds difficult.

 

From what I have understood, the AiR engine has a bunch of preset waveforms sampled.

When one is in hex layer mode it will select up to six waveform to me used on one of the six DCO, and filtering, controlling the envelope.

In melody tone mode, there are preset hex layers that the user can't see with their waveform, their filter, pitch and envelope parameter, and the user could only modify offsetting the parameters in the simplified melody tone menu. 

And of course there's the drum part, that I think is made using another "hidden" hex layer engine.

 

You are right about that the PX-%S is not a CZ, is a stage piano with an extra synth engine, neither is a classic sampling keyboard. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Choppin]

There is definitely an envelope and filter control but there really isn't a controllable oscillator per say as you can never actually alter the wave form on Hex or Melody tones.  You could argue that the ring modulator actually alters the resulting waveform, plus you can do a type of pulse modulation if you offset opposite same type wave shapes in two hex layers.