Creating CKF User Rhythms - Reference Manual

[vbdx66]

Too bad. Thanks for the info, Brad.

 

Nonetheless, I am curious to know whether a SMF file played by the CT-X3000/5000 will sound similar to the original MRF played by the CT-X800.

[Chandler Holloway]

On 4/26/2020 at 1:56 PM, vbdx66 said:

Another question which comes to my mind: if the MRF recorder of the CT-X700/800 is actually a standard MIDI recorder in disguise, could it not be used to produce a standard MIDI file that could in turn be used to create a new rhythm following your tutorial?

 

The CT-X800 can create SMF sequences from the onboard recording, so it could be used to make a MIDI file that can eventually be converted to a .CKF Rhythm. The CT-X700 has no way of converting the proprietary .MRF recordings to MIDI files (unless they have the help of a CT-X800 owner who can convert the file on their behalf), so unfortunately this won't work for them. They could use their CT-X700 as a MIDI controller and record a MIDI file in some kind of external software like Anvil Studio, for though.

 

You would still need to use Anvil Studio to tweak the MIDI file, mainly because you'll need to reassign the MIDI channels to match what the IDES Rhythm Converter software is expecting. You'll also likely want to do some copy/pasting and rearranging to get the Elements of the Rhythm in the right order. The guide details this process, though; once you've exported the MIDI file from your CT-X800, the process will be exactly the same as it would be with any other MIDI file. Follow the guide and you'll be fine.

 

I'm going to create another separate topic to talk about the SMF converter and my findings from our experiment so that this one won't stray too far off topic.

[Harshal]

hi chandler, 

very nice guide... appreciate it a lot.. 

i have few questions..

1) how to add marker and add PC and CC command in anvil studio?? can u guide me? any tutorial?

2) About rhythm. how to add PC and CC values in rhythm?? how can i change instruments for rhythm??

3) do u have any predifined guitar strumming patterns for the midi??

 

thanks.. 

[Chandler Holloway]

On 5/13/2020 at 12:12 AM, Harshal said:

hi chandler, 

very nice guide... appreciate it a lot.. 

i have few questions..

1) how to add marker and add PC and CC command in anvil studio?? can u guide me? any tutorial?

2) About rhythm. how to add PC and CC values in rhythm?? how can i change instruments for rhythm??

3) do u have any predifined guitar strumming patterns for the midi??

 

thanks.. 

 

1) I’m planning to add a new section to the guide that will cover some basic Anvil Studio operations. Note that you can skip inserting these messages in Anvil Studio and do it all in the IDES converter software if you would like. To cover it quickly: 

 

1. Use the timeline to place the cursor on beat 1 of the measure where you want to place the command. You must insert the command exactly on the downbeat of the measure at the beginning of the Element you’re editing.
2. In the toolbar at the top of the window, go to Edit -> Insert MIDI Event. A “New MIDI Event” menu will pop up.
3. Check the box that says “Include Meta Events”.
4. Use the “Kind of Event” drop down menu to select the command you want to send (PC, CC, marker). Marker and Program Change are towards the top of the list, so you may have to use the scroll bar to scroll up and see them.
5. Select the channel of the track you want to place the command on. Drums are channel 10, Bass is 11, Chord 1, 2, and 3 are channels 12, 13, and 14.
6. Select the value associated with the command you’re trying to send. Press ok to insert the message.
7. To double check any commands you’ve inserted, go to View -> Event List. Use the drop down menu to select the track you want to view events for. It might help to change the timecode format to display in measures and beats instead of minutes and seconds. You can do that by clicking on the box that says “Time” in the upper row of the display, and then choosing “Bars/beats/ticks” as the display unit option.

 

2) This is already covered in the manual on page 29.

 

3) Can’t really help you there. Programming realistic guitar sounds on a keyboard is very tricky. You might try messing around with the “Versatile Guitar” tones at the end of the Guitar category to see if that works for you. That’s how Casio programs guitar strums into their own preset rhythms, but there’s a substantial learning curve to getting it all to work right. 

 

If you check the appendix (not the manual) for your model of CT-X, there should be a section that has some details about the Versatile Guitar instruments, and what keys trigger what types of sounds.

[CilginBorek]

İ have read all of the book which Holloway uploaded here. May i ask anybody has experience of creating a rhythym?

 

 

After we create a new rhythym,

 

What happens when we play a chord exactly at auto accomp. mode?

 

For ex. assume we have 4/4 drum beat, C - C - C - C bass notes and C - E - G - B "broken chord" in any element playing back.

 

İf i use trial chord of D - F - A or any irrelevant individual notes, whats is gonna change in rhythm sound ?

 

i am a little bit rookie at music but i will be so glad if i am expressing myself true.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by CilginBorek
Made it simple

[Chandler Holloway]

6 hours ago, CilginBorek said:

 

Can we play different chords/notes than we have wrote with anvil studio at begin for Bass, Chord 1, Chord 2, Chord 3 channels? 

Yes, a Rhythm will adapt to the chords you are playing in real time and transpose the material you have recorded in the original rhythm based on the chords it detects. As I describe in the reference manual, your original recording should be in the key of C, because the accompaniment parts will perform this transposition with the assumption that the source material is in the key of C.

 

For example, if I convert a Rhythm from a MIDI file that was originally composed in the key of C, and then start Rhythm playback and play a C major chord, the keyboard won’t perform any transposition and you will hear the notes played back exactly as they were recorded in the source file.

 

If I take this same Rhythm and start Rhythm playback with a D major chord, the keyboard will take all the note data recorded to these tracks (except drums) and transpose it up two semitones for playback, because D Major is two semitones above C Major. As long as you make sure the original recording is created in C Major (or A Minor), the Rhythm will always follow along with the chords you play. You may have to fiddle with the chord table, break point, and invert values a bit to keep everything sounding natural (see this video for more information on what these settings actually control), but the default settings should work well enough for most applications so I would only worry about changing any of these settings if you’re really struggling to get your rhythm to respond to chords correctly.

 

If your source MIDI file is composed in something other than the key of C, that’s where you might run into problems. For example, even if I record my MIDI sequence in G Major, the keyboard will still “assume” that the source data is in C Major when transposing to match the chords you’re playing. So, for example, if I take this G Major rhythm and play a D major chord, the keyboard will compare that D major chord against (what it believes to be) the C major source and decide to transpose the note data up by two semitones. However, my source data is in G Major, so transposing this up by two semitones will cause the Rhythm to play back in A Major instead of the D Major I wanted.

The only exception to this rule is the intro and ending patterns, which don’t always have to be in the key of C but should be written such that they resolve to C Major or A Minor. This is because Intro and ending patterns have their own unique chord tables that abide by special transposition rules, allowing you to add in pre-programmed modulations and key changes at the beginning and end of your performances if need be. However, the Intro pattern should be written such that it transitions smoothly into Variation 1, so you want to make sure that the chord progression you program for the intro session (if you do decide to compose a complex chord progression) resolves to C Major or A Minor so that the chord detection behavior can correctly carry out this transition.

 

[CilginBorek]

Now i understand transposition and how auto accompaniment works. 

 

Basically, at auto accompaniment: 

 

Condition 1: when we play a note or chord at a specific beat of measure

 

Condition 2: if there is any note in rhythym at same beat time ( syncronized )

 

Result: Notes or chords we press on keyboard will play by using rhythym sounds that share same beat with our press on keyboard.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

Conditition 1: We play a chord or note on a specific beat.

 

Result 1: Our chord or note will play on loop with rhythym

 

Also

 

Result 2: C key scale pattern we have prepared at anvil studio or any other daw program,  transposes according to lowest note of chord or single note key.

  Thx for everything.

 

[nickmostly]

Hello: 

This is great!! thanx Chandler et all for your efforts!

I have been using the Korg PA 600 and programming smf files with cubase.. I am considering the Casio CK 7600 as a versatile performance alternative to the cumbersome (and expensive) PA600.

The smf preparation process looks about the same..

I have some questions if you will:

1. What is the maximum length of a variation

2. are variations limited by beats or measures

3. Can sounds of SMFs be changed with the keyboard (CK 7600) or only in SMF preperation

 

I think I read your manual pretty thoroughly and hope I'm not asking stuff already covered.

When I found the variation length on the Korg it was limited by the number of measures, so if I wanted a longer variation I would change the time signature to 8/4 16/4 and the like.

 

Thanx Much

Nick

 

[Ijomne]

What about accompaniment I made not fully looping. When ever I try to make a style, when it loops, it has a 1/4-1/2 second skip/pause before the next loop? Why would it happen? I quantized it and everything.

[nickmostly]

Hello again:

Not sure why I’m getting no response.. maybe if I explain what I’m doin. I create variations that contain an entire section of a song, verse, chorus etc, I trigger by hitting Low C and then can switch from Chorus to verse to end and stuff.. I’m trying to figure out if the Casio is capable of this b4 I get one.

Thanx Much

Nick

 

[Brad Saucier]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:39 PM, nickmostly said:

1. What is the maximum length of a variation

2. are variations limited by beats or measures

3. Can sounds of SMFs be changed with the keyboard (CK 7600

 

Did you mean WK-7600? or CTK-7200? Casio never made a CK-7600.

 

If it's one of the above, the pattern sequencer on those models allow a maximum of 16 measures for intros, endings and variations, and 2 measures max for fill ins.  Sounds used for each part can be changed. 

[Chandler Holloway]

On 7/31/2020 at 3:58 PM, Pigeon City Chicken said:

What about accompaniment I made not fully looping. When ever I try to make a style, when it loops, it has a 1/4-1/2 second skip/pause before the next loop? Why would it happen? I quantized it and everything.

 

Check to make sure that there are absolutely no gaps between the material in your source SMF sequence. Even if you quantize the sequence, if you have an empty beat or measure in between variations, that will affect your loop.

 

You should also double check that the time signature you have selected in the Rhythm Converter software matches up with the time signature of your original SMF sequence (or the time signature with which you intend to play back the finished Rhythm).

 

If you've double checked both of those issues, attach the SMF file you're converting here and I'll take a look at it to see if I can find the issue.

On 7/31/2020 at 2:39 PM, nickmostly said:

The smf preparation process looks about the same..

I have some questions if you will:

1. What is the maximum length of a variation

2. are variations limited by beats or measures

3. Can sounds of SMFs be changed with the keyboard (CK 7600) or only in SMF preperation

 

Sorry for the delayed response, I moved to a new house over the weekend and I'm still not settled.

 

1) Up to 16 measures for the variations/intros/endings, 1 measure for each fill. If you're using the IDES Rhythm Converter software, you can only make one measure fills (since it uses the older .CKF format), but when you record to an empty fill slot on the WK-7600 using the onboard interface, you can make 2 measure fills since it uses the newer .AC7 format.

 

2) You can make a Rhythm using any time signature supported by the .AC7 format (check the WK-7600's manual and look at the possible metronome time signatures for a full list). 8/4 is supported, 16/4 is not. 16/8 is, but that's not much more helpful than 8/4.

 

3) The WK-7600 has an onboard Rhythm Editor, so yes. You can change voice assignments before or after you import it to the keyboard. At first I would say do it on the WK-7600 itself, that way you can hear the changes you're making in real time and figure out the voices you like to use.

 

Once you know which tones you like, it will be easier to do voice assignments in the software editor because you can do it all very quickly with a mouse and keyboard. Both ways have their merits, I'd say try it out and decide what works best for you and your workflow.

[nickmostly]

Yes WK-7600 is what I'm considering..  16 measures should be plenty.

On the korg you put a time signature on every variation, didnt see if that was so on the casio.

thanx much for your time!!

Mooving.. Sheesh!

[pquenin]

Thanks Chandler for your work !

I'm planning to buy a CT-X3000, mainly because you can create your own styles, so your work is greatly appreciated.

So there is a sofware to convert a midi file into a Casio CKF file. 

But what about AC7 files ? How do you create rhythm with 4 variations ?

[Chandler Holloway]

At present, there's no way to create 4-variation Rhythms entirely on your computer. This might be addressed by a community developed software utility that's currently in the testing phase, but I can't speak on when that utility will be publicly released.

 

There are two ways to work around this in the meantime:

 

1) Create a 2-variation Rhythm using the methods described in this reference manual, import it to your CT-X3000, and then use the onboard Rhythm Editor to create the other 2 variations manually, for a total of 4 variations.

 

2) Create two separate 2-variation Rhythms using the methods described in this reference manual, with the first Rhythm containing variations 1 and 2, and the second Rhythm containing variations 3 and 4. Import both of them to your keyboard and then use the Copy Element function to combine these two separate Rhythms into one complete 4-variation Rhythm.

[pquenin]

Hi Chandler, thanks for you reply, your solution 2 is great, I did not think about that...

[pquenin]

There is something that I find strange. In the manual, it's written that you have to create 10 elements to build a 2 variations CKF rhythm.

In the manual of the CT-X3000 that use 4 variations rhythms you also have 10 elements to build a rhythm.

It seems that you have only 1 intro and 1 ending, and 1 fill per variation.

In CKF file you have one intro and one ending per variation. And as many fills as needed for all possible transitions between the variations (including a variation with itself).

I don't know if the CT-X700/800 or CT-X3000/5000 can take full advantage of these possibilities. Or maybe the CT-X700/800 can and not the CT-X3000/5000 ?

[casio_style]

Style on Casio ct x3000 consists of one intro, 4 variations, 4 fills and one ending. A total of 10 eemements are obtained.

[Chandler Holloway]

Yes, the .AC7 format achieves backwards compatibility with the .CKF format thanks to the fact that only 10 unique elements are used between each format, just in different ways. As @casio_style says, these "unused" elements that don't seem to exist on the CT-X3000 (Intro 2, Ending 2, the extra fills) are instead repurposed for elements that wouldn't normally exist on older, CKF boards (Variations 3 and 4, and their associated fills).

 

The .AC7 format does support multiple intros (the MZ-X models have a dedicated button for them), but they are "packaged" differently to abide by the 10 element limit. For preset Rhythms, each intro has a different version that plays depending on whether you triggered accompaniment with a major or minor chord, but these variations of the intro both occupy the same element slot, so the final total is still 10. Getting this "2-in-1" intro to work requires thorough knowledge of the way .AC7 files are structured, so it's not possible to create your own version of a 2-in-1 intro using the onboard controls. That's why preset Rhythms show their tracks having "Fixed" data when you try to edit them in the onboard Rhythm Editor. If you make changes to these carefully programmed intros, you can mess up the 2-in-1 structure, which is ostensibly why they locked the end user out of manually overdubbing them on their own.

 

Again, that forthcoming community developed software utility may include 2-in-1 intro functionality, but I can't say for sure right now. Most people create their own styles for a pretty specific purpose, so it's likely that you'll know whether you intend the intro to use a major or minor chord progression and thus won't need to bother with a 2-in-1 Intro.

 

When you're using the CKF Rhythm converter and following along with the manual, you should just copy paste the measures for Fill-In 1 and Fill-In 2 again for Fill-In 3 and Fill-In 4 for each "half" of what will become the eventual 4-Variation Rhythm. So, each of the .CKF files you make will only have 2 of the 4 Fills that will eventually end up in the finished 4-variation .AC7 file. No need to bother making unique Intros or Endings when you're making your CKF "halves" as well, as you'll only be able to have one Intro and one Ending in your finished Rhythm anyway.

[pquenin]

Thank you for the reply and explanations, much appreciated.

It's just OK for me because I prefer simple intros and endings (I will not use a chord progression), and 4 fills are just sufficient.

I used to own a MZ-300 but I had not the time to create rhythms for it because of a bad keybed, I had to send it back to the vendor.

The CT-X3000 seems to be a good keyboard but I must admit that I am a little bit afraid, I hope that the keybed will be of a better quality than the MZ-300.

The CT-X700/800 have just an horrible keybed, that make bad noises and squeaks after some weeks of use.

Surprisingly, the only Casio keybed that made a good impression on me was the Casiotone CT-S200 one.

That's why I have bought Yamaha arrangers after the MZ : often the Yamaha's have less features for the same price, but the quality is just there,  even the less than 100€ PSR-F51 have a decent keybed, and you immediatly know that you will have no problem in the long term.

But I am a bit tired of the Yamaha sounds, they don't have good synths sounds. The only sounds that are better than the Casio's are the guitars.

I am after an almost new CT-X3000 and I hope I can buy it to join the Casio community again 🙂

[pquenin]

YEP YEP YEP, I have bought a CT-X3000 ! 

[vbdx66]

Hi @pqueninCongratulations for your new purchase.

 

When you’ll be more familiarised with the CT-X3000, could you please tell us what you like and dislike about it as compared with the Yamaha PSR S670? I am  curious. Thanks.

 

vbdx66

[pquenin]

In a few years I have owned several keyboards : Yamaha PSR-E453 -> Casio MZ-500 -> Yamaha PSR-S670 -> Yamaha PSR-E363 -> Yamaha PSR-E453 again -> Yamaha PSS-F30 -> and now this beautiful Casio CT-X3000 and yes, I have to get more familiarised with it before commenting. 

[vbdx66]

Interesting.

 

If I may ask, what made you get a Yamaha PSR E363 after having had a PSR S670? And after that, having a PSR E453 for the second time? Mind you, I had a PSR E433 twice and I am seriously contemplating buying an used one for the third time if I find one for a reasonable price. Nice sounds, best keybed ever.

 

I had a CT-X3000 for a couple of weeks in 2018 and loved its rhythms and sounds but sent it back becaus the UI was so complicated. I then bought a CT-X800 but honestly, the keybed is a disaster. The keyboard is now in the repair shop under the warranty scheme and they’ve been keeping it for one month and a half... if this lasts longer, I’d like to get an exchange or a refund. I might buy the CT-S400 later this spring if the keybed is better.

 

Or else, I’ll wait for the PSR E473 to come out later this year..

[pquenin]

Hello vbdx66, I bought the PSR-S670 because it was a used one but in a perfect condition for 250€. Honestly, I had no particular complaints about it apart from its appearance maybe that I never liked. 

But it was a bit too much for me, as my initial goal was to have a simple, light and inexpensive keyboard that could help me compose and test personal "patterns" in real time thanks to the automatic accompaniment.

At that time, I had a preference for the Yamaha PSR-E363. I was amazed that you can have a great sounding, looking and well built keyboard for less than 200€.

But when I went to the store to buy it, there was the PSR-E453 for 240 € so hardly more expensive so I bought the PSR-E453.

As I ended up using the PSR-S670 very little for lack of time, I decided to sell it (420€) and go back to my first idea, so I bought a used but almost new PSR-E363 for 150€.

I then realized that it was not so convenient to exchange files with the computer because the E363 is not able to save songs as midi file, and it has no USB key input.

There was also some styles found on the PSR-E453 that I missed, so I decided to sell the E363 and buy a used E453 back (180€).

So the most expensive keyboard I bought was the Casio MZ-300 because I bought it new for 300 €. It was that price that decided me to buy it. But I had to return it back to the store because of a bad keybed.

My new CT-X3000 cost me 200€. It's a used one but it is like new, it has not been used more than 10 times by the previous owner. I like the lway it looks.

I love the sounds and the fact that you can edit them and create your own sounds. And I'm starting to understand how it works.

The styles sound more modern than the Yamaha (what I like) but the "fills" often sound strange and not very natural.

I'm going to try to create a personal style inspired by a style from the PSR-E453 using Cakewalk, to see if the process is straightforward.

What I miss is the possibility of recording directly in audio on the device, so I don't know if I will keep it. 

I also wait for the PSR-E473, I'm curious to see what new things he will bring...