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MZ X500 76 keys. Please make it happen!


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Hi! 😃

 

For ages, I've been using 61 keys keyboard. I think nearly all (if not ALL) keyboards in the MZ X500 price range have 61 keys only. 

 

I'd LOVE a 76 keys version. With all the regular features, but 6 octaves. And also, improved keybed

 

Really hope it will happen soon (I mean, THIS year. Not within 2 or 3 years). Now that it seems the regular MZ X500 is going out of the way

 

Cheers

 

🙂

 

MZX500-large.jpg

 

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Yeah, good luck with that!

 

I totally agree, 73/76 keys hits a sweet spot.  I've discovered I can't do 49 keys except in a pinch or special purpose, 61 notes is the smallest that feels acceptable.  But so much more freedom of movement with just that upgrade to 73/76 notes!

 

I wish I understood corporate decisions better.  I mean why would they come out with such a sophisticated keyboard if they weren't in it for the long haul?  It took a lot of engineering resources to produce such a capable and user friendly board, and then to abandon it?  With Hex Layers they're on the cusp of great stuff, having sliders for 6 individual sounds at once, I don't think there's another board at this price point that accomplishes that.  But they haven't taken the next step- developing a performance screen that lays out the volume, velocity, note range and velocity range for all 6 sounds on one screen- without that you're flying blind in a live situation, which mostly defeats the purpose of having Hex Layers in the first place unless you have a photographic memory or only use a couple of them in live performance situations where you want to be able to vary your sound.

 

And why develop most of the Hex Layers for EDM?  AFAIK, the market for this arranger board is more with home musicians that want a fun and groovy way to make some music, I doubt that many hip hop producers flocked to this board, even as great as it is at this price point, so why not give some consideration to the bulk of the buyers and come up with great Hex Layers for other styles of music?

 

I would bet $100 that Casio does not come up with a sequel to this board, though the PX-6S seems very likely, which hopefully would take the Hex Layers to the needed next level.

 

All this to say, don't hold your breath.  I think Casio is done with this high end arranger, they would need to duke it out for years with competition as strong as the Korg PA700 presents and the Yamaha arrangers, and they probably feel safer with the Previa lineup and the CTX boards.

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Hi! 🙂

 

Today I tested the MZ X500

 

While it's a great keyboard, I think it needs to be updated in some areas

 

1- Not all sounds are velocity sensitive. That's, you cannot play an organ, for example, with dynamics. I know the original Vox, B3 etc didn't come with this, but hey, it's 2019, and it would be nice to have the feature "touch sensitivity on/off" ready available, and also while we're creating the hex layers.

My 20+ years old Yamaha PSR have this feature!, and ALL the sounds are velocity sensitive. Great!

 

2- The main navigation is a bit confusing. I'd love, for example, when we play a certain category (pianos, electric pianos, strings, etc) immediatly that "chapter" is opened in full to select the sounds what we'd love from that category. Or an order like the Korg PA keyboards, when you have the categories on the left and right columns. You simply touch a category and voilá! you can have all the sounds grouped in pages. Great and simple!. 

Or an order like the Yamaha MODX, which is wonderful. 

 

Really hope they'll release the 76 keys version. The current marked is flooded with 61 and 88 keys for nearly everything, but too little 73 or 76 keys, which is the ideal from both worlds: size and playability. You have the perfect size, and the playing isn't really restricted

 

😃

 

 

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On 5/21/2019 at 1:30 AM, Eduardo Rojas said:

1- Not all sounds are velocity sensitive. That's, you cannot play an organ, for example, with dynamics.

Well, that's not a keyboard technical limitation, but simply a decision of making faithful organ emulations. If you want to emulate a classic organ's sound (like a Hammond B3, for instance), then using velocity sensitivity for controlling the sound's dynamics (i.e. volume) is simply out of place. Fortunately, sound editing capabilities in the MZ-X series are very good (much better than most other models of their price range) and you can edit the organ sounds to make them respond to velocity if you like.

On 5/21/2019 at 1:30 AM, Eduardo Rojas said:

2- The main navigation is a bit confusing

Each brand has its own style regarding the user interface of their products, and this implies some kind of learning curve. Personally I find the color touchscreen of my MZ-X300 very clear and easy to use, and overall I feel that it's easier to use, than, say, my Yamaha MODX 6.

 

Casio did a good job with the MZ-X series, but sadly it seems that it wasn't very succesful from a commercial point of view and it's unlikely that they will develop simmilar products, at least in the near future. From my personal point of view they were a bit overpriced when released (not many people would invest on a MZ-X500 when you could get a PSR-S750/770 for about the same price, for example), but I was lucky enought to get a brand new MZ-X300 for only 300 euro, and for this price there is nothing remotely comparable!

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ShadOwfax,

As unlikely as it seems to compare the X300 to the MODX, both being designed for different purposes and the 61 note MODX being $200 more in the USA than the X500, I'd be curious anyway.  Our mutual frame of reference is the X500/X300, and I'm strongly considering the MODX7.

 

Sounds- are the pianos, organs and electric pianos a step up or down on the MODX? 

Keybed feel?  I understand there's been quite a few that had clacky and sometimes defective keys on the MODX

User interface?  Particularly for BASIC sound tweaking and creating a Performance/Multi.

 

I'm very intrigued with the audio interface on the MODX.  You never know how great something is until you've tried it yourself, but it sure does sound sweet being able to send your sounds into a computer with simply a USB cable, and having a dedicated volume knob for incoming USB audio.  I've got over 600 recordings, typically 5-10 minutes long, of jams I've done with friends, and want to use a DAW to clean-up/master these tracks and be able to easily add more keyboard and mic parts to the DAW tracks.  I'm hoping the MODX boards can do this in a user-friendly way.

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AlenK,

casio  has made many 76 note boards, just not in their two high end arrangers, the mz-2000 and mzx300/500

also, looking at the wide and deep behemoth the WK 7600 is, they must have been embarrased at how unwieldy it was- the X500/300 are lessons in compact design.

 

but yeah, 76 notes is the perfect length for me, just wish that was the default standard, not 61 notes.

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Yep - agree - 73/6 would be a great move forward when the new MZ-X600 is released!! (Sorry, I lapsed into a beautiful dream for a moment there 😉 )

 

Seriously guys, I read all the MZ accolades and excitement but I am seriously so upset by the total "ZERO" from Casio - I have been a Korg lover for over 20 years but was so excited by this keyboard - are Casio seriously a "Create-and-forget" company? Why is this flagship not developed further? Was it a marketing flop? Casio-marketing here in Australia is a big "Zero" but then most musical vendors are much the same here.

 

Would be nice if Casio at least said "...we're still working on it...." or "...we've dropped that one..." - just would be nice to know.

 

I'm barely hanging on to mine but mostly because I feel it has zero support and is already a dead Casio product - the keyboard is great, don't get me wrong.

The fact that our local dealers are not getting new stock and have dropped the price by 50% leaves me a little nauseous 

 

Hope things change

 

Pete 🙂  

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On 5/25/2019 at 9:40 PM, Randelph said:

AlenK,

casio  has made many 76 note boards, 

 

I am of course aware of that. Note that I said "new." I see no signs that Casio feels motivated to do it again. 

 

PS. And just to be clear I am on record here on the Casio Music Forums as wanting a 76-key Casio keyboard, specifically a synth not an arranger (but if it does both like the MZ-X500 I wouldn't be adverse to it). I even once posted a mock-up of one. 

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I don't see why Casio would ever want to do yet more of the same

 

As I've posted before, the market is FLOODED with 61 and 88 keys instruments. But how many 73 or 76?. Virtually zero

 

It's the perfect size. You don't compromise your playing, as if with 61 keys. And also it doesn't weight as much and don't take up much space as 88 keys

 

And finally, there's a widespread cliche among all brands making 88 keys instruments: which one has the most unpleasant, heavy and stiff action. Even with synths, which is beyond ridiculous. How many pianists actually play synths?. Unless you're Rick Wakeman, Jordan Rudess or Herbie Hancock, there're way more people than play keyboards/synths than classical pianos.

 

They can avoid that with a 73/76 keys instrument. 

I wonder what will be that new synth tease announcement. Perhaps it's something in this direction 🙂

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Alright, for the powers that be, here's my dreamed Casio synth 😄

 

1- 73 or 76 keys. Semi weighted with graded action (that's, the lower part a bit heavier than the high one). But light and comfortable enough to play fast organ and synths parts. Not a struggle at all

 

2- Touch Screen, pitch and mod wheels.. Well, they have done that. So that's no problem at all for casio

 

3- Smoth sounds transitions. While changing sounds, programs, recordings, patches, etc. 

 

4- Several splits and layers. With independient volume and FX controls readily available. Pretty much a la Nord or Dexibell. 

 

5- Drawbars. Of course, factory asigned for organs, but ALSO to regulate real time features of all the other sounds. Let's say, the amount of FX 1 on Drawbar 1, the amount of FX 2 on Drawbar 2, open or close the lid on a piano, key noise on an electric piano, the pickup position on a guitar or base, the cutoff, resonance, portamento, etc on a synth sound, etc.

When you're in split and/or layer, the "function 2" button asing to regulate each section volume in real time. Dual organ function, to easily regulate the left and right hand playing

 

6- Pads. Like the MZ X500, but with an easier to use asign.

 

7- HDMI. To connect any laptop or ipad as a big screen, or transmit audio and everything

 

8- Audio over USB. To connect portable devices with any sound format like WAV, MP3, FLAC, etc. 

 

9- Input for guitar and input for microphone. With dedicated FX and amp sim sections. 

 

10- Multitrack sequencer. Easy to use, with the overdubs facility. Also, guitars and vocals to be recorded directly on this section. Export as MIDI, WAV, FLAC or MP3

 

11- Expression and sustain pedals asignable on/off for each section. That's, for example, if you're playing a piano layered with strings, you can select the expression pedal only for the strings, to fade in and out, not the piano. And so on.

 

12- Portable. No 73 or 76 keys instrument should weight more than 15kg these days

 

13- Headphones jack on the front. Just like the MZ X500. Can't believe how many keyboards and synths are putting this jack back!. 

 

14- Plenty of user memory for sounds, recordings, etc. 

 

15- MIDI over USB. Simply plug and play a laptop and control everything. Of course, app for Windows and ios.

 

16- Replaceable sounds a  the Casio library. Or course, high quality sounds from the factory, incl. drums, classic vintage  keyboards and synth sounds, realistic orchestral instruments, etc. 

 

 

I don't need styles. I don't need a billion of modulators, oscillators and filters. Keep the most important things ready to play and to store for performance, creating songs, etc 

 

😃

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I believe Nord makes a 73 key synth. Can pick up an older Ensoniq 76 key, I have one. Generalmusic did-SK, Equinox even the old S3T and S3. And are there more people playing synths than pianos? Maybe where you are. Every gigging musician I know has at least one 88-key piano keyboard, and many more younger players can now afford one and are buying them. If I go out, I would definitely now take a lightweight 88 over a 76 (never know when I'll have to double as bass-player and keys and for solo and duo work definitely) and a 2nd backup 61 or 76 key. 76 is good, I've played many-the old Wurlitzer eps and Fender Rhodes had 73 key versions I think I recall, for roadwork were smaller than 88. It would break new ground for Casio to make a weighted, 76 key version-but they might not have done so well with the WKs in the market, might have deduced most piano-based musicians, or aspiring musicians are listening to their teachers-and going for 88 keys since many classical pieces need that range-not all pieces since early music (pre-piano) was written for harpsichord and other pre-88 key organs and keyboard instruments. Still good to become familiar with a full concert piano range if you will be doing any serious classical-or for that matter, jazz repertoire. Amazing how 76 notes is not always quite enough. IMO.....

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14 hours ago, Randelph said:

As unlikely as it seems to compare the X300 to the MODX, both being designed for different purposes and the 61 note MODX being $200 more in the USA than the X500, I'd be curious anyway.  Our mutual frame of reference is the X500/X300, and I'm strongly considering the MODX7.

 

I would say advantages of the MZ-X500 over MODX include:

* built-in speakers

* 16 velocity sensitive trigger pads

* arranger functions

* easier to do (and modify) 2-way splits on the fly

* tonewheel organ engine with 9 sliders and other controls - though the organ sound, itself, I still find lacking

 

MODX advantages include

* mostly better quality sounds (though that can be subjective or vary with which sounds you focus on)

* many more simultaneous effects

* availability of 76 key version (and 88)

* 1 GB custom sample expansion capability (vs. 256 mb)

* FM synth

* Large touchscreen providing better interface for many functions

* 8-zone MIDI controller

* built-in computer interface

 

Other 7x-key non-hammer action boards in a similar price range would be Roland Juno DS76, FA-07, VR-730; Kurzweil Artis 7; Korg Krome 73 each with their own set of advantages/disadvantages relative to the MZ. 

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From a professional or prosumer point of view having the same synthesizer engine in 61,76 and 88 version, like the MODX, FA (and Integra-7), Juno DS it's a plus, because MZ-X 500 and px-560 are similar but not equal in features. I suppose there's a market also for an expander unit.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

I believe Nord makes a 73 key synth. 

 

Yes, of course Nord makes 73 keys keyboards

 

But they have so many limitations (often ignored because the general media is completely biased towards Nord), and the price is just absurd for what they actually offer

 

 

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On 5/26/2019 at 3:31 AM, Randelph said:

Sounds- are the pianos, organs and electric pianos a step up or down on the MODX? 

In general terms, most of the sounds are far better on the MODX - They are the same as in the Montage series, so we're talking about the top-of-the-line of the latest generation of Yamaha's synths. I think it's not fair to compare the MZ-X to the MODX, as the latter is more recent and expensive. But the MZ-X is a great balance between sound quality, features and price, and probably the best product in its class.

On 5/26/2019 at 3:31 AM, Randelph said:

Keybed feel?  I understand there's been quite a few that had clacky and sometimes defective keys on the MODX

The MODX 6/7 has a semi-weighted keyboard with a pretty good action for my taste. No aftertouch, though :(. It seems that nowadays only the very expensive high-end keyboards have this feature.

On 5/26/2019 at 3:31 AM, Randelph said:

User interface?  Particularly for BASIC sound tweaking and creating a Performance/Multi.

Basic sound tweaking (envelopes, filter/resonance, EQ, effect send...) is dead easy using the rotary knobs. In general terms all operations are easy using the big touch screen, although the synth as so many features and parameters that you really need to read the manual to get used to the user interface. Once you've got it, all operations are pretty straightforward.

On 5/26/2019 at 2:48 PM, Eduardo Rojas said:

And finally, there's a widespread cliche among all brands making 88 keys instruments: which one has the most unpleasant, heavy and stiff action. Even with synths, which is beyond ridiculous. How many pianists actually play synths?. Unless you're Rick Wakeman, Jordan Rudess or Herbie Hancock, there're way more people than play keyboards/synths than classical pianos. 

I don't think than making 88-key weighted synths is ridiculous. Many keyboard players have been trained as classical pianists and quite a lot (including myself) prefer the weighted action, even for playing other kind of sounds rather than acoustic piano. I find myself playing most of times all my synths from my 88-key weighted controller, and sincerely I prefer weighted action for almost all sounds (except for tonewheel organs, I admit). Light action keyboards have some other advantages such as a smaller size, less weight and better portability, but I like the feeling of the "weight" of the keys. And well-trained pianists (not my case, I'm afraid) are capable of playing very fast passages without the need of switching to a light action keybed. Personally, whilst I like playing almost all kind of sounds with a weighted keyboard, I cannot stand playing actoustic piano sounds in a synth-action keybed (I find it very artificial and unpleasant).

You're pretty right, on the other hand, when stating that many low- and mid-level 88-key synths haven't good a good keyboard action. I'd rather had bought a MODX 8 instead of a MODX 6 if it wasn't for the Yamaha's GHS action, which I don't like at all. But a notable exception is the Juno DS-88, for example, which has a very good (to my taste) action. But at the end of the day, it's great that companies offer the same model in 61, 73/76 and 88 key versions.

 

On 5/26/2019 at 7:06 PM, anotherscott said:

I would say advantages of the MZ-X500 over MODX include:

* built-in speakers

* 16 velocity sensitive trigger pads

* arranger functions

* easier to do (and modify) 2-way splits on the fly

* tonewheel organ engine with 9 sliders and other controls - though the organ sound, itself, I still find lacking

I wouldn't consider "built-in speakers" and "arranger functions" as "advantages", considering that we are not talking of the same kind of products. The MODX is not an arranger, so speakers and auto-accompaniments are quite out of place here. I think it's a bit like saying that a Ford Fiesta is better than a Ferrari because it has 5 seats instead of only two. They're simply different kind of beasts. I personally love the speakers of my MZ-300, but I don't consider the lacking of speakers of my MODX as a drawback or a problem. And even in the arranger "realm", many of highest-end keyboards also lack speakers or built-in amplification (such as the Yamaha Tyros/Genos or the Korg PA4X).

 

That said, I'd love to see a new model of the MZ-X series, in both 61 and 76 (and even 88) key versions.

 

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The PX560 is pretty close to the MZ-X series, except for pad controls and slide controls. The operating system looks pretty much the same, I'm sure the tones are from the same samples-not sure but menus for tone selections look the same. I had considered the MZ-X but as I become more savvy with the 560, for my uses at least it is a killer. And I've played around with a "Phatboy" controller with the PX560-it does work for realtime control in a limited way. The PX560 does respond to external control changes for pan, volume DSP depth so far burt haven't been able to control individual hex layers with it so far. I miss the independent sliders for the organ and hex layer patches so that would be nice. And agree about action-I play all actions constantly-differences do affect my technique. I can play as rapidly on a piano action as a spring-action-actually have better control with weihted keys as the spring actions are usually so lightweight as to not give me much tactile feedback for dynamics on rapid passages. One other nice thing about the PX560-since splits and layers are so easy to create-I split the 88 keys into 2 44-key layouts-instant Hammond dual keyboard layout for 2 different organ tones. Feels a little strange playing at the same physical level, but definitely not bad. 

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I think the "weighted, piano action feel keys" have gone nuts. Honesty

 

If you try, for instance, the Kawai MP11 (which is completely overrated, IMHO). One of the most sluggish and oversprung actions I've ever play. Not remotely close like a real piano. You cannot play anything other than piano. 

 

Roland in general have better actions than all brands using Fatar (which are, unfortunately, the majority). Some Yamahas as well. The Korg RH3 action did have received complains about being heavy (which it is). I think that's why they came up with the Kronos LS. 

 

What I've always loved about Casio pianos and synths in general is their playability. They're designed to be played, not to suffer. 

 

And yes, I can live without speakers (that would relief much weight). Albeit the headphones jack is on the front, just like the regular MZ X500. I don't know why in latest years nearly all new keyboard/synth has put the headphones jack on the back, which is almost useless. 

As for styles and everything. There're billions of keyboards around. I can live without styles. What I need is a good track recording/ sequencer with drum tracks/edits facilities.

 

😃

 

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2 hours ago, Shad0wfax said:

I prefer weighted action for almost all sounds (except for tonewheel organs, I admit).

 

Me too, though not enough to have a strong preference. The only strong preferences I have is weighted for pianos, no for organs. Almost everything else is sufficiently satisfying on either.

 

2 hours ago, Shad0wfax said:

I wouldn't consider "built-in speakers" and "arranger functions" as "advantages",

 

Like almost everything else on my list, they are advantages if you need them, and you can ignore them if you don't. But I'd say they are significant differences to be aware of, if you are choosing between these boards, and that was the point of the list. 

 

1 hour ago, Jokeyman123 said:

The PX560 is pretty close to the MZ-X series, except for pad controls and slide controls. The operating system looks pretty much the same, I'm sure the tones are from the same samples-not sure but menus for tone selections look the same...I miss the independent sliders for the organ and hex layer patches so that would be nice.

 

Some other differences:  MZ-X has monophonic synth functions and clonewheel organ functions (which is not merely a matter of sliders... the tone generation system is different, the single trigger behavior of the percussion is correct, many other parameters are customizable, etc.). You can load custom sample data (not just for the pads, but as playable instruments from the keyboard). The split/layer setups are more flexible. You can pick registrations by name from the touch screen. It has a pattern sequencer, and the arranger features of course.More editability in general.

 

1 hour ago, Eduardo Rojas said:

I think the "weighted, piano action feel keys" have gone nuts. Honesty

 

If you try, for instance, the Kawai MP11 (which is completely overrated, IMHO). One of the most sluggish and oversprung actions I've ever play...You cannot play anything other than piano...Roland in general have better actions than all brands using Fatar 

 

Weighted actions (and un/semi as well, for that matter) vary a lot. I haven't played the MP11, but the MP10 was quite heavy feeling. But the MP7 was much lighter, and I think most would find it very usable for a wide variety of sounds. Rolands also vary... I don't like the actions of the FA-08/DS88, but I've liked others. And Fatars vary. The TP40 is a lighter and better feeling action than the TP100. The version used by Kuzweil is especially light feeling.

 

When it comes to non-hammer actions, I like Casio's better than the low-end models from Korg and Roland, as long as you can avoid the clacky ones. But Fatar makes nice actions, and I would take the one in the Numa Compact series over the Casio.

 

re: " I don't know why in latest years nearly all new keyboard/synth has put the headphones jack on the back" -- probably cheaper. The other output electronics are already in the back. Putting headphones in front requires an additional circuit board at another physical location, and wiring it up to the rest.

 

 

 

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Haven't tested the MP7, but the MP11 was a true disappointment.

 

The problem in general with Fatar actions are the issues. Several reports about noisy actions, squeaks, malfunctions, etc. Even in some cases, out of the box!. In other, within just a couple of months

 

As for headphones input on the front, if Casio has done before, I don't see any problem in the future 🙂

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17 hours ago, Eduardo Rojas said:

The problem in general with Fatar actions are the issues. Several reports about noisy actions, squeaks, malfunctions, etc. Even in some cases, out of the box!. In other, within just a couple of months

 

It depends on which Fatar action you're talking about, and even sometimes which board it is used in. But you can say the same about Casio. In fact, at this moment, in this very forum topic area, the two most active threads are this one and the one on "Clicky/clacky keys."

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/26/2019 at 12:07 PM, Eduardo Rojas said:

Alright, for the powers that be, here's my dreamed Casio synth 😄

 

1- 73 or 76 keys. Semi weighted with graded action (that's, the lower part a bit heavier than the high one). But light and comfortable enough to play fast organ and synths parts. Not a struggle at all

 

2- Touch Screen, pitch and mod wheels.. Well, they have done that. So that's no problem at all for casio

 

3- Smoth sounds transitions. While changing sounds, programs, recordings, patches, etc. 

 

4- Several splits and layers. With independient volume and FX controls readily available. Pretty much a la Nord or Dexibell. 

 

5- Drawbars. Of course, factory asigned for organs, but ALSO to regulate real time features of all the other sounds. Let's say, the amount of FX 1 on Drawbar 1, the amount of FX 2 on Drawbar 2, open or close the lid on a piano, key noise on an electric piano, the pickup position on a guitar or base, the cutoff, resonance, portamento, etc on a synth sound, etc.

When you're in split and/or layer, the "function 2" button asing to regulate each section volume in real time. Dual organ function, to easily regulate the left and right hand playing

 

6- Pads. Like the MZ X500, but with an easier to use asign.

 

7- HDMI. To connect any laptop or ipad as a big screen, or transmit audio and everything

 

8- Audio over USB. To connect portable devices with any sound format like WAV, MP3, FLAC, etc. 

 

9- Input for guitar and input for microphone. With dedicated FX and amp sim sections. 

 

10- Multitrack sequencer. Easy to use, with the overdubs facility. Also, guitars and vocals to be recorded directly on this section. Export as MIDI, WAV, FLAC or MP3

 

11- Expression and sustain pedals asignable on/off for each section. That's, for example, if you're playing a piano layered with strings, you can select the expression pedal only for the strings, to fade in and out, not the piano. And so on.

 

12- Portable. No 73 or 76 keys instrument should weight more than 15kg these days

 

13- Headphones jack on the front. Just like the MZ X500. Can't believe how many keyboards and synths are putting this jack back!. 

 

14- Plenty of user memory for sounds, recordings, etc. 

 

15- MIDI over USB. Simply plug and play a laptop and control everything. Of course, app for Windows and ios.

 

16- Replaceable sounds a  the Casio library. Or course, high quality sounds from the factory, incl. drums, classic vintage  keyboards and synth sounds, realistic orchestral instruments, etc. 

 

 

I don't need styles. I don't need a billion of modulators, oscillators and filters. Keep the most important things ready to play and to store for performance, creating songs, etc 

 

😃

 

So you should not call yourself MZ-X. The MZ-X line is of keyboard arrangers. Synthesizer you ask in the Privia section or XWP1. If I am going to put here the List of Rhythm Improvements and sampler player. It will greatly saturate the MZ-X along with your request.

 

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