PX-S3000 as a VST Controller

[KennyC]

I have a project studio and lots of VST libraries.  I am interested in the PX-S3000 as a USB MIDI controller.   Here are my questions:

 

I am looking at the PX-S3000 as a new keyboard for myself (replacing a 30 some year old Roland RD 1000 - weighs a ton!), but I have questions that I just can't seem to find the answer to.  Specifically, the PX-S3000 Smart Scaling, smart features (replacing the tri-sensors with only two but providing internal software features to make it even better than tri-sensors), and HD MIDI. Do these smart features also apply to MIDI messages sent via USB out from the PX-S3000 to a host computer, or do they only apply to the internal sounds of the keyboard?

 

Had the opportunity to play a PX-S1000 yesterday (stand-alone, not as a controller) and I loved the feel of the action and the dynamic levels, so I know the PX-S3000 would be a keyboard that I would like, but the question remains about are the "Smart Functions" only for internal sounds or are they transmitted vis USB MIDI to the host computer.  

[Rod Tompkins]

The PX-S3000 does transmit High-Resolution MIDI velocity over USB, if that's one of the things you're asking. I have confirmed this with the MIDI monitor in PianoTeq 6.

[KennyC]

Thank you Rodmusic, yes that answers one part of my question.  

 

I too have Pianoteq6 along with several VST libaries, so I'm looking forward to hopefully purchasing the PX-S3000 if I find out the Smart Features are also for MIDI out via USB and not just internal sounds, i.e. do the two sensors with software interpretation (replacing the tri-sensor used on previous models) also work for USB MIDI out as well as the Smart Scaling.   

 

[Joe Muscara]

The PX-S1000 also has Smart Scaling. Not to dissuade you from buying the PX-S3000, it's a great keyboard, but if you plan to use it only as a controller, I'm not sure you need all that. The PX-S1000 will do all that I think you are looking to do.

[KennyC]

Thanks Joe.  I'm targeting the PX-S3000 because it has pitch bend wheel and two rotary knobs that can be used to send some CC out, but mainly the pitch bend so I can have it all together in one unit without resorting to using other hardware to control pitch bend on a VSTi.  In addition to this, I like the way the PX-S3000 handles the user interface/menu much better than the way it is implemented on the PX-S1000.  

 

Now, as to my original question. I believe I may have failed in the way I phrased my question.  So let me try again.  

 

Here are some statements from Mike Martin at Casio:  "Both the PX-S and CDP-S keybeds feature a NEW scaled, weighted hammer action and keys with simulated ebony and ivory surfaces. The PX-S keybed also includes a patent-pending "smart scaling" feature that simulates the hammer and key behavior of each of the 88 keys individually.

 

In addition to the above some other differences.

 

BOTH are two sensor actions. While I don't expect you to take my word for it, these new instruments especially the PX-S series perform better in almost every respect than the tri-sensor action found in previous models. Trust me we had people meticulously comparing them throughout the NAMM show.

 

The PX-S series action has some additional features not included on the CDP-S. This includes High Resolution MIDI Velocity and Release velocity."

 

So my question is: Does the "smart scaling" feature on the PX-S3000 affect not only how the action triggers the internal sounds, but  does it affect how the action triggers external sounds (VSTi) over USB MIDI out into Painoteq or a DAW or Kontakt, etc...?

[Joe Muscara]

Oh, I understood your original question.  Frankly, I don't know the answer. I'm guessing that smart scaling is only internal sounds, but I could be wrong about that.

 

Great point about pitch bend and knobs on the PX-S3000. I don't know how I forgot about those!

[KennyC]

Joe, I am absolutely terrible at posting on forums, I guess that is one reason I rarely do so.  Only the first paragraph in my post above was directed at you - explaining why I would want the 3000 over the 1000.  What my mind conceives when I write a post and the reality of what I write, well there is little correlation. LOL  The rest of my post above (outside of the first paragraph) was to hopefully make more clear what I am trying to ask should someone else read this thread and know the answer.  I was not at all questioning if you understood my original question - at least not in my mind, but reading it fresh today I certainly see how you would have thought I was directing that at you.  My apologizes. 

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

I didn't think you were directing the rewriting of the question specifically at me. I was just letting you know I didn't know the answer.

[KennyC]

Thanks Joe.  See, even when I thought I was wrong, I was wrong about that! 

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

I don't know the answer.  I'm trying to find some solid information, when I find some I'll let you know.

[KennyC]

Thank you Brad.  

 

While I don't know if this would provide the answer for me, do you know how a keybed triggers the internal sounds it has on-board?  Is it directly tied to the internal sound engine (be it modeled or sampled) or does it first generate MIDI data and send that to it's own internal sounds?   If it is the latter, then I would suspect that the smart scaling features would also be used in triggering external sounds via USB MIDI to VST's.  I've actually never really thought about this and it could be that this varies from manufacture to manufacture, or maybe there is a standard.  I'm clueless to this too.  

[Brad Saucier]

I do know that the touch sensitivity settings (off, light, heavy, etc) applies to the MIDI output.  It seems likely that smart scaling is part of that touch sense system, so it would also affect MIDI output, but again, I can't be 100% sure.

[KennyC]

Thanks Brad.

[KennyC]

The PX-S3000 and SP34 3-Pedal have been ordered - nice birthday present for me!  After I receive it and spend some time with it, I will report back my findings about using it as a VST controller. 

[tkarl]

On 7/3/2019 at 11:42 AM, KennyC said:

I have a project studio and lots of VST libraries.  I am interested in the PX-S3000 as a USB MIDI controller.  

I don't think so.  I believe that question was asked and answered here:

 

 

[KennyC]

Thanks tkarl.  I've watched the webinar video (one above) twice (even with CC) on, before posting my question. The answer to my specific question is not in this video. 

 

At any rate I did purchase the PX-S3000 and it arrived yesterday.  So far I am happy with it as a VST controller.  

 

[midipiano]

On 7/19/2019 at 1:09 PM, KennyC said:

Thanks tkarl.  I've watched the webinar video (one above) twice (even with CC) on, before posting my question. The answer to my specific question is not in this video. 

 

At any rate I did purchase the PX-S3000 and it arrived yesterday.  So far I am happy with it as a VST controller.  

 

 

Any new KennyC? I also think about the px-1000 or 3000 as a master keyboard for vst plus-ins at the moment and have the same question regarding whether the two sensor action  with smart scaling works for the midi out. When not it would be worse than a tree sensor master keyboard.

 

I think it should be good to test when you record midi notes and play a single key fast without releasing the key more than 50% up?

[KennyC]

midipiano, I can confirm the following for you.  It does transmit high resolution velocity.  So if you have a VST that can receive high resolution velocity, it will work.  It works on high resolution velocity with Pianoteq as you can look on the midi monitor within Pianoteq and see that it is in high resolution.  It does not transmit 0-127 note-off velocity as the MIDI implementation chart shows in the manual.  It only transmits value 64 for note-off velocity.  It will repeat notes both slow and fast after a key is pressed without having to return the key all the way up.  I would say it is somewhere around the 55 percent up.  The feel and the dynamic control is what impresses me the most.  For myself it works great with Pianoteq, and all of the instruments in NI Komplete, and a couple other software instrument I have.  The form factor (small and lightweight) is a great benefit for me too.   I am able to put it on the computer desk right in front of my monitor and use it to control my VSTi's.  

[midipiano]

That sounds good. I want to do the same, to have it as a master keyboard below my table. Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope you don't mind four follow-up questions. 🙂

 

It sounds like you're pretty happy with this keyboard for VSTi's so far?

 

Does the different velocity shapes for the key action that you can choose (light, mid-light, normal, mid-heavy, heavy) are used too for the MIDI out?

 

Do you you the 'Local Control' OFF to disconnect the sound engine when using it with VSTI's or do you just turn the volume down? Disclaimer, I also posted a topic about this just some minutes go here.

 

And interesting that you mention the release velocity, I posted a question about it just some minutes ago. 🙂 I'm a bit new to this piano emulating world and I'm not sure whether note off velocity is a thing you want to have.

 

[KennyC]

Yes, I'm happy with it.  Yes, the different settings - light, mid-light, normal, mid-heavy, heavy - do apply to MIDI out also.  

 

At first I was using Local Control off.  However since this setting is not retained by Auto Resume I would have to turn local off every time.  Got tired of doing that so just turned the volume off (all the way down) on the keyboard and just use it like that as a controller. 

 

Whether note-off velocity is important or not, I can not answer for you.  For some people this is an important factor and for others it really don't matter.  I've never played a keyboard that sends note off velocity, so I really can't address that issue.  I bought this keyboard thinking that it does have note-off velocity because the manual says so, but it does not have it.  Still, it is a good controller.  Particularly when I compare it to the Roland RD-1000 that I was using as a controller, wonderful wooden weighted keys, but poor MIDI implementation  Of course  the RD-1000 came out three years after MIDI standards were implemented, so what could one expect.  

[midipiano]

That helps a lot. Unfortunately I don't have a store nearby to try them myself. Therefore I first try to see which is the right model for me by reading manual and the web.

 

I have also a lot of Kontakt Native instruments pianos as I have just bought komplete 12 in the sale. Just out of interest, have you compared them to your psx3000? I'm wondering whether you prefer the internal Casio samples for playing piano. I could image that the internal dynamics and all this stuff is adapted perfectly to the key action, while you have to tweak velocity curves a lot before the Kontakt pianos feel right?

 

Still try to figure out if the couple of additional piano and e-piano/rhodes sounds in the 3000 are worth the extra change (I'm not interested in the guitar sound or flutes). When the VSTi stuff is as good or even better I would not need them I guess.

 

---

And a last question regarding the MIDI out if you don't mind. 

 

Do you feel that the black/white keys are comparable regarding MIDI out velocity when you press them with the same pressure? With my current keyboard the black keys have a much higher sensitivity, which results in velocity jumps when you press them with the same pressure. Really annoying and makes playing almost impossible without editing the MIDI later. I would like to avoid this behaviour in the future and have a balanced velocity feeling for all keys, like on a real piano.

 

 

[KennyC]

I tried several keyboards at a Guitar Center before deciding on the Casio.  To me the Casio had the best feel, and a feel that I really liked.  The response between the black keys and the white keys is very even.  When I tried it out, the GC only had a PX-S1000 available to try, but I knew since I liked it, that the PX-S3000 would be what I wanted because they have the same keybed in them.  For piano, I use Pianoteq.  For myself, Pianoteq gives a much better sound than the sampled pianos in Komplete, but I do use other sounds in Komplete.  As far as the internal sounds in the Casio, I do not use them, I use the PX-S3000 strictly as a controller.  The reason that I opted for the 3000 over the 1000 is that the 3000 has a pitch bend wheel and two rotary knobs that I can use for functions via MIDI.  Some instruments just don't play right without pitch bend.  I didn't want to use another piece of hardware to control pitch bend, I wanted it all in one unit, thus the PX-S3000 for me, not to mention that the user interface is also much better or easier to use on the 3000 vs the 1000.  Personally, it is the keybed, the feel, the evenness, and the dynamic control that sold me on the Casio as a controller.  I wish that Casio would come out with a great MIDI controller only, no internal sounds or speakers, etc...but for now the PX-S3000 is serving that purpose.  I also found that the normal or default velocity curve works best for me.  Hope this helps.   

[midipiano]

Yeah that helps a lot. I will check Pianoteq out. Still not sure, but currently I think will lean more towards the PX-S1000. I don't think that I will use the interface often. I want to choose a velocity curve and that's it. At least I imagine it to use this way currently, maybe I will something.

 

At the same time I really want to have internal sounds again to just play piano sometimes without the laptop running and to be restricted to a couple of simple sounds were I don't have to tweak the instrument setup to feel right. I miss to be restricted and being setup -less since I don't have access to a real piano anymore.

 

The only thing I will surely miss is a mod-wheel. I like that for VSTi synth. At the same time I rarely used a pitch-wheel in the past. For what kind of sound do you want a pitchbend? Nothing piano related I guess?

 

[KennyC]

Think saxophone, guitar - both acoustic and electric, violin, other stringed instruments, sometimes works well on a shakuhachi, harmonica, synths, and others.  I only bought the Pianoteq Stage, but will upgrade to standard latter on.  Diffidently get the Steinway D.  Steinway endorsed Pianoteq and the Steinway sounds actually have the name Steinway on them.  They have a demo that you can download, small footprint as these are not sampled.  The demo will have available all of their pianos, but some of the notes (about four or five) will be disabled and it will quit after 30 minutes or so and you will have to restart it.   But it is enough to give you a taste of Pianoteq.  In my book, the Casio PX-S3000 and Pianoteq are a match made in heaven.  

[john*]

On 7/27/2019 at 2:22 PM, midipiano said:

Do you feel that the black/white keys are comparable regarding MIDI out velocity when you press them with the same pressure? With my current keyboard the black keys have a much higher sensitivity, which results in velocity jumps when you press them with the same pressure. Really annoying and makes playing almost impossible without editing the MIDI later. I would like to avoid this behaviour in the future and have a balanced velocity feeling for all keys, like on a real piano.

 

I've done a bit of testing with the MIDI out and the internal sounds and it looks like the black keys are from 5 to 10 higher velocity (on a scale of 127) when you play closer to the fulcrum.

Fine for general use.

Most folks will not notice or care about this.

Maybe not a great choice for a controller, but that isn't what this keyboard is supposed to be.

That said, it would be cool if Casio could offer alternate calibrations for the balance.