First Keyboard

[Fmcpike]

Although I have no musical background at all, I've decided to learn to play a keyboard.  I'm considering the MZ-X500.  However, it seems like a big part of its features are synth related.  That part would be wasted on me.  Are there any other models that have the same features as the MZ-X500 but without the synthesizer part?

[Brad Saucier]

Just so we can get to some specifics, can you clarify what synth related features you're looking at?  I have a feeling you'll actually end up using them more than you think.  The lower priced version of the X500 is the MZ-X300.  It eliminates the hex layer tones and a several other things.  The next price level down from the X300 is the CT-X5000.  

[Fmcpike]

Thanks for your reply.

Just my personal taste, but I find synth sounds to be a little annoying.  Except for maybe one or two.  I'm looking for something with all the features of the MZ-X500 but without any synth voices.

[Casiofun]

Don't think anything exists in a keyboard minus synth sounds because these keyboards are in fact synthesizers in that they can generate other sounds.

[Brad Saucier]

It sounds like you're talking about electronic sounds in particular.  Every Casio model in this range will have a number of preset electronic tones.  Perhaps it would be a little easier to tell us what features of the MZ-X500 you would like to keep.  Electronic sounds are just a small portion of what the MZ-X500 offers. Since the hex layer synth section is sample based, it also includes other sounds like guitars, brass, strings, etc.  

[Chas]

Sounds to me that you need a GM (General Midi) preset style keyboard. Those have been around for years, and even GM sound sets have "synth sounds" in them.

 

As Brad asked, what features exactly do you want? The MZ has tons of features, so just use the ones you want/ need and ignore the rest. Or maybe consider a CT-X keyboard that aims more for presets rather than traditional synthesis.

[Chandler Holloway]

I would agree that a CT-X5000 is a good step down from the MZ-X series, especially if the synth features and synth sounds don't appeal to you.

 

The CT-X line has some tone editing features, but the way you build up "patches" ultimately comes down to tweaking and layering preset tones and adding DSP effects on top for the finishing touches. The AiX sound source excels at reproducing the sound of acoustic instruments, but the electronic sounds (organs and EPianos) are nothing to scoff at. The synth sounds are there if you need them but they're not the main attraction by any means. If you are only planning to work with presets without much custom tone creation, the CT-X is the better choice.

 

To my ears, the MZ-X's presets don't sound quite as good as the CT-X's (with the exception of the organ tones, which the MZ-X line specializes in), but the ability to sample new tones into the MZ-X opens up a world of great possibilities for expanding the preset library. However, in the same way that making great hex layer sounds takes practice, building up a great library of sampled tones has its own learning curve as well.

 

Rhythm and sequencing wise, the CT-X5000 is only slightly less capable than the MZ-X, but the touch screen interface of the MZ-X is a lot more approachable, and would likely be less intimidating for a first time keyboard owner such as yourself. The MZ-X line is definitely more capable as an "all-in-one" studio arranger, though. You can record .WAV audio recordings directly to a USB drive, you have more I/O connectivity for audio and MIDI, and all the onboard controls (assignable knobs and sliders, mod wheel) are better for controlling outboard and gear and DAWs.

 

I would agree with Brad that if you're not at all interested in the hex layer stuff, the MZ-X300 will be better for your needs. Casio stopped manufacturing them a while back, though, so you'll have to get one off the used market.

[Fmcpike]

Thank you everybody for all your replies.  Brad, you nailed it!  When I say I don't want the synth sounds, I'm referring to the electronic sounds.  All that spaceship sounds.  What I really want I guess is to find something that costs about the same as the MZ-X500, but without the Martian music and instead uses the money to provide a higher quality of the remaining stuff.  I'd try to be more specific about the features I want but to be honest, I have no idea what many of the words mean.  Like what the hell is a sequencer and do I need it?  And what do pads do?  Are 16 enough?  Guess I'll have to learn as I go along.  Anyway, that's probably part of the fun of learning.

But again, thanks you guys.  I know you're all busy and I appreciate that  you took the time to respond.

Mahalo!

[Chandler Holloway]

7 hours ago, Fmcpike said:

When I say I don't want the synth sounds, I'm referring to the electronic sounds.  All that spaceship sounds.  What I really want I guess is to find something that costs about the same as the MZ-X500, but without the Martian music and instead uses the money to provide a higher quality of the remaining stuff.

 

If you're looking at a non weighted key Casio in that price range, they're going to have synthesizer and electronic sounds on them. Even the most basic budget stuff Casio makes has synth sounds in the tone library. These keyboards are designed to suit the needs of musicians from all kinds of genres, and as such, they have sounds to cover all the bases.

 

You don't have to use these sounds, but they're always going to be there. The only Casio models I can think of that don't have any synth sounds are digital pianos, which have a full set of 88 weighted keys. The entry level models in these product lines, like the Privia PX-160 or the PX-S1000, might be what you're looking for. The main draw with them is the simplicity, the key feel, and the piano sounds, all of which make them excellent starter pianos for someone new to the instrument.

 

Those two models are stage piano "slabs", so they're not particularly big (especially the PX-S1000, which is the slimmest digital piano on the market), but if you're looking for something smaller, you'll be looking at 61-key keyboards. Those models will have synth sounds on them, but you don't have to use them if you don't want to.

 

Just because they have those electronic sounds doesn't mean the acoustic stuff was skimped on in any way shape or form; the CT-X series is a great example. The stage piano sample from the CT-X series is amazing, and the wind instruments (solo trumpet and solo tenor sax are my favorites) are extremely expressive. They also have a powerful DSP effects processor to enhance these sounds, like adding phaser sounds to electric pianos or a rotary speaker sound to a jazz organ. These DSP tones are preset from the factory and don't require any tweaking to get going (unless you want to).

 

This SoundCloud playlist contains short demos of some of the CT-X tones if you want to hear for yourself. https://soundcloud.com/casiomusicgear/sets/ct-x700-ct-x800-tone-demonstration

 

7 hours ago, Fmcpike said:

I'd try to be more specific about the features I want but to be honest, I have no idea what many of the words mean.  Like what the hell is a sequencer and do I need it?  And what do pads do?  Are 16 enough?  Guess I'll have to learn as I go along.  Anyway, that's probably part of the fun of learning.

But again, thanks you guys.  I know you're all busy and I appreciate that  you took the time to respond.

Mahalo!

 

A sequencer is a way of recording songs using the onboard controls of the keyboard. Most Casio keyboards feature some kind of multitrack recording functionality to allow users to layer multiple performances on top of each other and build more complex compositions. You can lay down a drum beat on one track, then add a bassline on another track, and put a piano performance on top of that. That's just one example; you can use as many different instruments as you want until you run out of tracks. String quartets, jazz trios, brass ensemble, whatever you want.

 

Sequencers are different from an audio recorder because they're like recording "instructions" for a performance rather than the actual audio data of a performance itself. It's like the difference between playing back a piano performance on a cassette tape vs hearing a performance on a player piano.

 

The audio recording from the cassette tape is a snapshot of one particular performance, recorded in a studio with a particular microphone on a particular piano. As long as you play back the tape at the same speed/volume and on the same set of speakers, it will sound exactly the same every time. The roll of music inserted into the player piano is just giving the mechanized keys on the piano a set of instructions on what notes to play, when to play them, and how hard to play them. You can take that same roll of music and put it into a different player piano, and it will still follow the same instructions, but the performance will sound different because the instructions are being carried out by a different piano, in a different room, etc.

 

Think of a sequencer on a keyboard like a player piano for the modern, digital age. There's no mechanized keys or roll of paper, but when you create a "sequence" (aka a multitrack recording), you're recording instructions for the keyboard to carry out using its own digital sound engine. The drum beat is one set of instructions, the bassline is another, and so on and so forth. These instructions layered on top of each other become a multitrack recording.

 

However, because it's all digital data, you can manipulate the instructions after recording them to tweak the sequence to your liking. After recording a track with a clarinet voice, you might decide that you like the melody of that track, but it would sound better if it was played back on a saxophone or an oboe. With a sequencer, you can just switch the tone assigned to that track without having to record it all over again (which is what you'd have to do if you made an audio recording). You could even tell that track to use the clarinet tone for the first few measures, and switch to a saxophone at measure 5.

 

Sequencing is a powerful songwriting tool because of all the flexibility and convenience it provides when building and revising these multitrack recordings. You can automate tempo changes, tone changes, crescendos, decrescendos, etc, while still maintaining the ability to undo mistakes, copy and paste material from one track to another, and clean up sloppy playing (do some research into the magic of quantization and velocity editing if you want to see how easy it is to make your keyboard doodling sound much more professional).

 

When you're done crafting a solid sequence, you can then record it to an audio file (.WAV or .MP3) that you can share with friends or listen to anywhere, anytime. After all, there's a reason we're not still releasing music on player piano rolls anymore, haha. Sequences are great for writing a song, but when you're ready to share it around, that's when you want to record an audio file.

 

The MZ-X500 has the most powerful sequencing capabilities of any Casio in the current line-up, so if that sort of thing interests you, then the MZ-X would be a great choice. If you're just looking to play keyboard for fun and practice and you don't mind having a slightly larger slab piano with weighted keys, go for a PX-160 or a PX-S1000. If you want a super simple 61-key keyboard with great sounds, I recommend the CT-X700. A CT-X5000 is more advanced and has more sequencing and tone editing features added in, but is comparable to the CT-X700 in terms of the quality of the sounds because they're built on the same sound engine.

[mike71]

I agree with @Chandler Holloway. In my opinion it boils down on what you want to do. If you are thinking to go to a teacher or at a school music, it's mandatory to have an 88 key digital piano. In the Casio range PX-160 is a good entry level option, but at this point if you have looked at the MZ-X 500 you should look at the PX-560, that has the same user interface of the MZ-X but a weighted keyboard, or the PX-360.

[Fmcpike]

@Chandler Holloway, your last post  is a much needed and much appreciated lesson on keyboards.  I've seen many videos that were supposedly aimed at helping rookies like myself but I think some of these Youtubers forget that a lot of the terms they toss around are alien to me.  I learned a lot of stuff I didn't know that I didn't know.  And now I definitely want to become familiar with sequencers.  Thank you so much for taking the time to teach me.

[Fmcpike]

@Mike71, at your suggestion I looked at the PX-560 and now it is down to that or the MX-Z500.  I like the idea of 88 weighted keys of the PX-560.  But the sequencer and all-encompassing aspect of the MX-Z500 is also appealing.  I'll probably decide which one to choose once the music stores reopen and I get to lay my hands on each of these keyboards.  I'm grateful for your help.

[Jokeyman123]

The sequencer-if that is the deal-breaker for you  Fmc-is not as full-featured in the PX560 as the MZ-X500. I own the PX560, not the MZ but I've studied its manual.  There is no cut/paste, no copying of specific sections in a track, it has some limitations but is still very comprehensive, and the mixer is fantastic for setting levels, panning and DSP. I would download both manuals and compare/study the features before you decide, and what you might be wanting to accomplish short-term. long-term. For my technique-I have piano-weighted Privias-and non-weighted keyboards, I've had to use both professionally and for hobbyist pursuits. It's much easier in the long run to gain piano techniques with weighted keys, then transition to non-weighted, IMO. but maybe that's just the way I had to learn. Piano-action will definitely make your keyboard "chops" stronger. If you learn to play on non-weighted keys, then have to transition to piano weighted, might give you more difficulty. Again, just my opinion. If I hadn't already shed blood to learn the XW-P1 (!-joking) I would have probably gone for the MZ-X500 as my 2nd axe after the PX560. Either choice-you will learn alot about creating music, no question! 

[CharlieWorton]

I would chime in and say that if you're wanting to learn to play piano, you DEFINITELY want an 88 key keyboard.  Beyond that, look for the AIR sound engine in the Casio, and triple sensor, weighted keys.  One good example is the PX-S3000, at around $1,000 Canadian (I think around $800 USD).  The S3000 has a broad selection of sounds - several hundred, if my memory serves - and they're quite realistic, particularly the pianos.  It also features a software application that will run on your apple or android tablet, and help you to learn to play music.  There are other good choices, but I think I'd recommend you watch a few YouTube videos on the PX-S3000 and see if it feels right for you.

 

While I like the availability of the Casio 17 track editable music sequencer, you can plug most Casio keyboards into a computer through the USB Midi, and obtain that track recording capability through software running on your computer.  Some software is free, some is expensive; but they frequently offer capability that is not available to an on-board music sequencer.  Bottom line is, lack of a music sequencer isn't a deal killer.  For not much money, you can get the equivalent running on a computer, if that appeals.

 

Good luck in your search!  >Charlie

[Fmcpike]

@Jokeyman123 @CharlieWorton

When I started researching, I heard many times how important it is to have 88 weighted keys so that kind of stuck in my head.  But if the primary reason for having them is it would be easier to transition from a weighted keyboard to a non-weighted keyboard, I don't foresee a time when I would be in that situation.  Then again, I keep hearing some really good things about the AIR sound engine, which the PX560 has and the MZ-X500 doesn't.  I watched some videos on the PX-S3000, but the other two made a bigger impression on me.

Thanks you guys for taking the time to respond.  Every response I got on this forum taught me something or gave me a point of view that I had not considered.  I'm very appreciative for your input.

[Brad Saucier]

MZX has a version of AiR that lacks piano string resonance effects.  Because it lacks the piano effects, Casio insists on calling it something different... MXi.  Outside of that minor difference, AiR and MXi are virtually the same sound engine.  Both products are rendering their sound at CD quality.   

[Fmcpike]

On 6/3/2020 at 6:38 AM, Brad Saucier said:

Outside of that minor difference, AiR and MXi are virtually the same sound engine. 

 

Okay, that did it for me!  I went down and ordered the MZ-X500.  Should be getting it in about a week.  Thanks everyone for all your help!  You all will be invited to my first after-Grammies party.

Now all I gotta do is learn to play the thing.  Any ideas on online piano lessons?

[Jokeyman123]

There are many on Youtube-varying quality and quantity. 

[Joe Muscara]

What kind of stuff do you want to play? Check out

 

https://www.playgroundsessions.com - Harry Connick Jr. and Quincy Jones

 

https://www.irocku.com - Chuck Leavell (Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton)

 

https://www.openstudiojazz.com/a/a1q4f - Peter Martin, Geoffrey Keezer, as well as other instruments

 

I haven't subscribed to all of them, just Open Studio which has great jazz lessons, but I've done some lessons on irocku and Some aspects of Playground Sessions look interesting.

[sslyutov]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:56 AM, Fmcpike said:

 

Okay, that did it for me!  I went down and ordered the MZ-X500.  Should be getting it in about a week.  Thanks everyone for all your help!  You all will be invited to my first after-Grammies party.

Now all I gotta do is learn to play the thing.  Any ideas on online piano lessons?

Still the best chose is PianoMarvel if you are interested In the course designed to help you to develop skill gradually and systematically.

[perfectpitch]

Does Casio have midi-keyboards or digital pianos only?

[Chas]

On 6/8/2020 at 2:04 PM, perfectpitch said:

Does Casio have midi-keyboards or digital pianos only?

 

Nearly all modern electronic keyboards, including digital pianos, have MIDI functionality.