Thinking of giving up PX-5S - options?

[jaspeter]

I know this is a long read, but I'd really appreciate your thoughts if you have time.

 

I'm on the fence about finally giving up my PX-5S.  I love the keyboard, but I have a few issues:

• It's getting old.  At about eight years, it's finally starting to show signs of wear.  Aside from the clunky keybed, some of the number buttons are becoming less and less responsive.  Even more unnerving is that writing a stage setting will sometimes randomly alter a different parameter in a different zone.  For example, I'll load a stage setting, change a parameter on one of the hex layers in zone 2 and write the setting.  But then, the volume of zone 4 magically resets to 100; or the DSP assignment disappears.  I'm chalking this up to aging memory - I have that problem myself!  I fear the only solution is to buy a new unit.
• It's a single point of failure.  Unless I buy two PX-5S keyboards, I will never have a backup.  This is always a problem, even when it is new.  For me, buying two is not a practical solution (although, it's not out of the question if it comes down to it).
• There are still a few extra features that I'd like that the PX-5S simply doesn't have.  This is not a knock against the keyboard, no keyboard is likely to have everything you want all-in-one.
• Eventually, Casio will discontinue the PX-5S.  It's unlikely that the newer keyboards will directly import the files from the PX-5S, so the thousands of hours I've spent putting together setups for it will be lost.

 

So, I thought an ideal solution would be to go with a VST host and plugins:

• VST hosts, plugins, and my resulting settings are just software so I should always be able to use them if I maintain a backup, i.e. I shouldn't have to worry about them being discontinued.
• A backup unit is as simple as having another computer on which to install the software and data files.  For the controller, any old keyboard with a MIDI out should do in a pinch and it doesn't have to be the exact Casio PX-5S make and model.
• I can supplement any missing features or desired sounds with various available plugins.
• I could route vocals through the plugins for vocal effects.
• I could choose any keyboard I wanted as a controller.  I could get one with quieter keybed (my family complains about my thumping when I'm practicing) or a different action.  I think I'd like to try something with a more synth/organ keyboard.  I don't feel like I have much use for a piano-weighted one.

 

However, I haven't made the jump away from the PX-5S yet, and here's why:

• I'm still a little worried about a software solution being able to react as immediately as the hardware, i.e. I'm not sure about how/if latency will be an issue when I get an arpeggiator, phrase sequencer, and eight other voices going at the same time - which is something I regularly do with the PX-5S.
• I'm having a heck of a time finding a set of VST plugins that will do everything the PX-5S already does!  I rely heavily on the PX-5S onboard phrase sequencer to supply drum loops.  It doesn't do everything I'd like, but it's a 90% solution.  Just finding drum sequencer plugins has been daunting and I haven't found a suitable replacement.
• It's so nice to have the keyboard as pretty much my only piece of gear (besides monitors/speakers/mixer, which will be necessary for any setup).  A VST solution would require also hauling a computer and USB-Audio interface.  Not to mention, once the PX-5S is plugged in, I only have to turn it on.  Nothing else.  That's it.

 

I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences or ideas.

[Brad Saucier]

Well, I haven't played my PX-5S every day for the last 7 years, but I've definitely played it a ton, and tweaked stage settings a ton, you know that.  It's still working fine to this day, but mine lives at home under a cover whenever I'm not playing it. Perhaps your buttons just need a cleaning and the action needs some fresh grease?  

[XW-Addict]

Synthesizers synthesizers piano's. That what I do, PX-5S is my go-to for long time now. 

What I learn on and want from the PX5S to find sounds I like or a soundscape to set a mood musically, Is

the thing to look for I also love to bather it to see what an adaptive synth can do like classic 

sounds , electronic sounds, electro , experimental I'm on a totally different plane there. That why I like 

to find new sounds for the PX-5S here on the forum some are fresh and nicely programmed.

 

This the only synthesizer within the range of Casio keyboards to use multiple arpeggio, phrase and DSP. 

Only two hexlayers to stack sound though true , but I also discover hexlayer is another engine on itself ,

it might sound strange but there a difference editing a single tone and whats available there and edit a 

hexlayer with range of sounds it has. four hexlayer would be better why for One , a massive orchestra can 

be build , Two four different tones in total can be synthesized for a massive tone triggered at multiple levels. 

 

Shet got enthusiastic and started a monologue sorry 

 

 

 

 

[jaspeter]

41 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

Well, I haven't played my PX-5S every day for the last 7 years, but I've definitely played it a ton, and tweaked stage settings a ton, you know that.  It's still working fine to this day, but mine lives at home under a cover whenever I'm not playing it. Perhaps your buttons just need a cleaning and the action needs some fresh grease?  

 

I've been hesitant to crack it open at the risk of completely messing it up and turning it into a brick, but at the rate things are going, maybe I'm headed that way, anyway. So that's not a bad suggestion. I'm still concerned about the memory issues, though. Maybe if I backup all my user data and do a factory reset and firmware install, that might breathe new life into it.

[jaspeter]

21 minutes ago, XW-Addict said:

Synthesizers synthesizers piano's. That what I do, PX-5S is my go-to for long time now. 

What I learn on and want from the PX5S to find sounds I like or a soundscape to set a mood musically, Is

the thing to look for I also love to bather it to see what an adaptive synth can do like classic 

sounds , electronic sounds, electro , experimental I'm on a totally different plane there. That why I like 

to find new sounds for the PX-5S here on the forum some are fresh and nicely programmed.

 

This the only synthesizer within the range of Casio keyboards to use multiple arpeggio, phrase and DSP. 

Only two hexlayers to stack sound though true , but I also discover hexlayer is another engine on itself ,

it might sound strange but there a difference editing a single tone and whats available there and edit a 

hexlayer with range of sounds it has. four hexlayer would be better why for One , a massive orchestra can 

be build , Two four different tones in total can be synthesized for a massive tone triggered at multiple levels. 

 

Shet got enthusiastic and started a monologue sorry 

 

 

 

 

 

It's good to hear your experiences, though. And you are re-emphasising the same points that keep me from committing to a change. Overall, I'm still very happy with it!

[Brad Saucier]

6 minutes ago, jaspeter said:

Maybe if I backup all my user data and do a factory reset and firmware install, that might breathe new life into it.

 

I was thinking the same. 

[XW-Addict]

May I be obnoxious to say you've would have like it and hoped for a workstation of this type of keyboard but with less flimsy controller surface and dust gathering crevasses.

(*I agree if so*)🤭

 

[Jokeyman123]

Hmmm....I was thinking...possibly since there are no other keyboards I know of quite as close to the PX5s-maybe an XW? Does have hex layers, arpeggiator, phrase recording, performances-and uses a non-piano weighted keyboard. The other option-the PX560, i have both. Mike Martin ported over at least a few of the sounds from the PX5s to the PX560. Might not be bad backups even if you go for total restore of the PX5s. 

[jaspeter]

9 hours ago, XW-Addict said:

May I be obnoxious to say you've would have like it and hoped for a workstation of this type of keyboard but with less flimsy controller surface and dust gathering crevasses.

(*I agree if so*)🤭

 

 

I struggle with that. I definitely would have liked a more solid build, but I also have to remember that I probably wouldn't have bought it with a higher quality keybed because that would have pushed it outside of my budget (although, knowing what I know now, I would have paid that extra). I have to commend Casio for their understanding of their customer base!

[jaspeter]

9 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Hmmm....I was thinking...possibly since there are no other keyboards I know of quite as close to the PX5s-maybe an XW? Does have hex layers, arpeggiator, phrase recording, performances-and uses a non-piano weighted keyboard. The other option-the PX560, i have both. Mike Martin ported over at least a few of the sounds from the PX5s to the PX560. Might not be bad backups even if you go for total restore of the PX5s. 

 

I've thought about the XW series in the past. The other keyboard that caught my eye was the MZ-X500, which would work for the one-man-band backup I have mostly been doing. But then, I started with the software synth line of thinking and stopped considering other keyboards. Your comment has me re-reconsidering.

 

Now that I think of it, maybe I shouldn't have phrased my question the way I did. I made some assumptions that may not be correct, specifically, what do people do to prepare for potential equipment failure before a gig? I was thinking you would need an exact backup rig, but maybe there are other solutions that are not so obvious. I think I might go start another thread about that!

[Joe Muscara]

19 hours ago, jaspeter said:

 

Maybe if I backup all my user data and do a factory reset and firmware install, that might breathe new life into it.

You should do the "backup all [your] user data" part anyway. Just in case. (That's not a knock against Casio, just a general statement about doing backups of your data. Things happen.)

[Jokeyman123]

Joe-absolutely, jaspeter i posted an answer in your other post about this. for live gigs-computers scare me-I've had way more computer failures than have I had keyboard failures. and laptops especially are so sensitive to outside electrical interference-most laptops have poor or no shielding from electrical interference (EMI or RFI). One power surge and you may end up with a doorstop for your computer-keyboards always seem to be more forgiving of all the assaults in the field. In a studio fine, but one bad move on a gig-and your hard drive unless you have SSD computer drives, is toast. I've dropped keyboards, and still worked. and if a keyboard has been reliable for awhile-get the same one if you need to replace it. Every time I scour around looking at other stage piano/workstation high-end instruments-I'm glad i got the Casios. I'd only use a controller on a gig if I could midi it to a hardware tone module, with 5-pin connectors, not USB, too many interference problems with no optoisolaters in the midi connections with USB. Like running AC equipment without a fuse to blow before your equipment does. Here, it will be your data. Data store for redundancy in the computer world-and keyboards. 

[jaspeter]

43 minutes ago, Joe Muscara said:

You should do the "backup all [your] user data" part anyway. Just in case. (That's not a knock against Casio, just a general statement about doing backups of your data. Things happen.)

 

I hadn't been doing regular backups until the memory issues started popping up. It's so easy, though, that I I have no excuse for not doing that all along!

[jaspeter]

31 minutes ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Joe-absolutely, jaspeter i posted an answer in your other post about this. for live gigs-computers scare me-I've had way more computer failures than have I had keyboard failures. and laptops especially are so sensitive to outside electrical interference-most laptops have poor or no shielding from electrical interference (EMI or RFI). One power surge and you may end up with a doorstop for your computer-keyboards always seem to be more forgiving of all the assaults in the field. In a studio fine, but one bad move on a gig-and your hard drive unless you have SSD computer drives, is toast. I've dropped keyboards, and still worked. and if a keyboard has been reliable for awhile-get the same one if you need to replace it. Every time I scour around looking at other stage piano/workstation high-end instruments-I'm glad i got the Casios. I'd only use a controller on a gig if I could midi it to a hardware tone module, with 5-pin connectors, not USB, too many interference problems with no optoisolaters in the midi connections with USB. Like running AC equipment without a fuse to blow before your equipment does. Here, it will be your data. Data store for redundancy in the computer world-and keyboards. 

 

These are good points that I didn't consider. I've also found just at home that I have had to use the MIDI 5-pin out instead of the USB. Ground-hum issues can be tough to track down, and even worse when you have limited time before a gig!

[jaspeter]

1 hour ago, Jokeyman123 said:

I'd only use a controller on a gig if I could midi it to a hardware tone module

 

This comment didn't hit me until I had already replied and was pouring myself a cup of coffee...

 

What tone modules have you used or would recommend? Do you know of any that have features like the phrase sequencer and arpeggiators built in?

[Jokeyman123]

Only the dance boxes have arpeggiators, phrase composition-I have both an RM1X and MC-505, but for good piano and organ sounds for gigs-not so hot-passable for multi-track accompaniments and have full programability for sounds, phrases and multi-tracks. I don't have one, but the Yamaha RS-7000 older (and rather large) desktop device is very powerful, like the MPC Akai's but used are less money from what I see. Similar to the RM1X but even more programming and recording capabilities.

 

 I don't have any newer modules that can do what these are capable of. Most rack or desktop modules I've seen-are clones of the keyboards in that series and do not usually have any additional automation functions.  I have been suggesting that Casio come up with such a module but except for the XW-PD's I know of no other Casios that have the features of the PX-S3000/560/MZ-X/XW/CTX series.  

[XW-Addict]

5 minutes ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Only the dance boxes have arpeggiators, phrase composition-I have both an RM1X and MC-505, but for good piano and organ sounds for gigs-not so hot-passable for multi-track accompaniments and have full programability for sounds, phrases and multi-tracks. I don't have one, but the Yamaha RS-7000 older (and rather large) desktop device is very powerful, like the MPC Akai's but used are less money from what I see. Similar to the RM1X but even more programming and recording capabilities.

 

 I don't have any newer modules that can do what these are capable of. Most rack or desktop modules I've seen-are clones of the keyboards in that series and do not usually have any additional automation functions.  I have been suggesting that Casio come up with such a module but except for the XW-PD's I know of no other Casios that have the features of the PX-S3000/560/MZ-X/XW/CTX series.  

Stop saying things that make me drool dreaming about those 🤣😂

[Jokeyman123]

Prices on e*** for these pieces seem unusually high right now-probably not a good time to buy-but if you keep you eyes out-I've seen the RM1X or MC-505 come up for around 200 or so-read listing carefully though, not all sellers on e** are created equal! And stay away from the MC-303s, apparently sound alot worse than the MC-505. But I went for these 2 units in particular over the years because-very solid metal construction-huge number of sounds although as I said weak in the bread-and-butter sounds but are there. Midi up well to my Casios with DIN connectors-usually the PX560, fantastic combination wowee-zoweee! And controls are-except for the stupid chicklet buttons-especially the RM1X-I needed to completely restore the keyboard button controls but not the pots-very solid. And midi din ports, with huge options for midi control. If only the XW-P1 came as a module! Maybe.... do the CTX's have midi din? the CTX700 relatively inexpensively  might be good as a sound module-if it is as lightweight as the XW-might be a good alternative if you don't mind the extra size. 

[jaspeter]

8 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

I don't have any newer modules that can do what these are capable of. Most rack or desktop modules I've seen-are clones of the keyboards in that series and do not usually have any additional automation functions.

 

I'm surprised that there isn't enough call for a module with those functions for manufacturers to think it's worth producing. Maybe there are too many people going the software route.

 

I've actually thought it might be cool to hack the PX-5S into a standalone module when the keybed finally goes out. That's far beyond my capability, though.

[Jokeyman123]

I think you are right-most of the user groups-Music Player, Gearslutz, others seem to focus so much on software/VST. I use VST's, but something about hardware control that seems more secure to me. I've had to battle with various versions of Windows since 3.1-crashing, patches, updates-unless you like that kind of troubleshooting, not for me unless i have to. I have various versins of Linux-some reallt nice programs on that platform, but again, you need a good solid hardware platform and same with Apple. I started on an Atari in 1986-but that was designed particularly for music functions and was more stable than any of the Windows and Apple systems I needed to learn later on. I have never had a module crash, although throw enough dirty AC at anything it will lock up.Computers are OK with stable power, but outside that, no. I've used laptops on a few DJ jobs, for playing and juke-boxing mp3's-and would use a computer between sets for fill-in music if the club owner wants that-but for live playing with questionable power, i wouldn't have that as my sole music source with VSTs-way too shaky. But that's me. 

[jaspeter]

I've been convinced that the software solution is not the way to go, at least for my primary instrument. 

 

Now I'm thinking that I should look at other keyboard options. Although, I'm still going to try to fix some of the issues I've been having with the PX-5S.

 

The MZ-X500 has definitely caught my eye. I'm going to have to go get some clarification about some questions I have from the folks over in that forum.

 

Thanks for your responses!

[Choppin]

I'll just chime in...  What if you did just buy another PX-5S if the old one is really failing?  If you got 8 years out of it, what do the next 8 years look like?   Not such a bad investment, you already know what you are getting.  

 

Some things to keep in mind, MIDI MPE might come into its own.  Newer keyboards and new technology might incorporate this into their devices (it's a way of managing expression, volume, effects, for individual notes rather than limited to all notes on a specific channel).  Unless you really want to go into a different direction from the PX-5s and a reinstall of the firmware and a factory reset doesn't set things right, why not buy another PX-5s?  Anything can happen in the next 8 years but at least you know exactly where you are starting.

 

And as far as backup of anything electronic... electronics will always fail and possibly to a point where the information is unrecoverable.  Just have that expectation.  Figure out ways to mechanically record your creative stuff - like pen and paper, it's surprising how long my high school note books outlasted my commodore 64.