Wild! Midi clock without midi clock

[Jokeyman123]

I'd posted a few weeks ago (months?) that someone had suggested here, since the PX560 has no midi clock out/in-and this might work with other Casios without midi clock-I can't say since i've only done this with the PX560-that the tempo setting might be accurate enough from the 560 to sync with other device's tempo setting. Crude maybe-but i tried it initially and it worked well enough although I'm still researching the old-school method of creating a 'click track" to midi clock converter-there are a few but it gets pretty complicated or expensive depending on how one wants to go.  However...

 

I just did a few more experiments-with my Yamaha QY modules and can report some pretty wild results. Almost made my brain explode but...

 

i picked an auto-arranger rhythm from the QY-then I did the same with the PX560-some style that was reasonably close-like 2 boogie or shuffle beats, or 2 pop or funk beats-different variations from the Casio and Yamaha. I tried 2-no 3-no 4 approaches. 1) started the QY rhythm manually-after matching my tempos. Then I hit the PX560 arranger-without keys and it stayed in sync for 4-5 minutes-no drifting at all. Very nice. then 2) started the QY again manually-but this time triggered the PX560 with the keys-had to hit the downbeat just right-but voila-still perfect sync for 4-5 minutes. Now thinking I could louse up the PX560 internal clock by jamming over the arranger rhythm-and I picked one of my really "dense" arrangements-with 6 different tones playing, got the QY started, and again triggered the PX560 with the keys-and picked rock organ 1-2-3 and a few e pianos over the top-again amazingly-stayed perfect for 5 minutes. One more thing sir (Colombo came over to jam with me-in my head) try this....start the QY rhythm-then trigger the PX rhythm with the keys-jam over the top of all this-and record it to the system track! Woo-hoo-although my ear canals got a bit scrambled-more than a bit-10 tone/rhythm parts and my solo lines...yikes-it worked! Why bother-this proves the internal clock of the PX560-at least from this experiment-is pretty solid-and so were the Yamahas. i still wish the PX560 had midi clock in and out-but these results make me happy. I was primarily motivated to sync my live digital drum or malletkat tracks that I have to record with stand-alone sequencers, and sync that to the tracks i record with the PX560-aside from recording in real time to digital audio which of course will work too. Haven't tried that yet, but this experiment is encouraging. for all the supposed "gaps" in Casio features with some instruments-there are so many resources available now-a little creative thinking and boing...back to the mothership!

 

Next experiment-after they let me out of the home for internally/eternally wacko musicians-if my brain can stand it-I will see if i can do this manual sync with a-gasp! 3rd keyboard or module-i am afraid to try this with software-since I do not trust computer clocks as much as hardware midi clocks, but that's just me.

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

Back in the day, I would create backing tracks with the song sequencer (called "MIDI recorder" in current models) on my MZ-2000 for my cousin to sing vocals over.  I didn't have much in the way of audio recording other than a Philips dual deck CD recorder.  I would playback the MZ-2000 in his headphones while recording mic audio directly to CD without the music, so I would have an isolated vocal track.   I would then take that CD, playback on another CD player, mix that audio and the MZ-2000 together, running into the CD recorder again to get a final mix.  I would manually start playback on the MZ at the correct count-in point as heard in the original vocal track.  For a 3 minute song, the CD player and MZ would stay in perfect timing with one another.  I'm glad I did it that way because those original isolated vocal tracks survive to this day, where I can use much more sophisticated DAW software I didn't have back then.

[Jokeyman123]

That's impressive! After working with much more ancient midi equipment-I did not think our Casios would be so locked down for accuracy-it definitely will bring me new ways to record-like a group of musicians that know how to keep time. and even the MZ-2000 was that good. I didn't think i could play to a "click track" with acoustic instruments-or digital without midi clock-now I'm going to test to see how accurate the digital recording decks are in relation to all this. I never even tried with any digital recording decks, because I did not think it would work. I was looking a things such as the old Korg KMS-30 but that's not what I needed. I seem to remember when I had the original Sequential circutis pro-One, somehow I built my own CV trigger that would sync to the older non-midi Korg DW arpeggiators-I thought I might be able to do that as some of the Volcas still send a "sync' signal, but this is also not what i need. So this timing accuracy with our Casios is fantastic. with my initial tests-I didn't spend much time seeing how long these would stay in sync, but it does. I've been wanting to lay in live drums, bass and mallets synced to the PX560. If this works with my recorders, wow, I think this is quite a worthy spec, even for a larger studio. I will also test this with the PX350 and 575 and post back. I don't think either of those have midi clock-the 575 only has USB midi but I never checked if it sends any kind of clock out. I don't think it does.

[Brad Saucier]

Casio is also a timepiece company, after all. 

[Jokeyman123]

EEsshh!!!! I forgot-of course-I have a few-makes alot of sense. First thing you see when you walk in the Dover lobby-watches!  Well, there are a few other things too.

[Jokeyman123]

One more not so minor update to these experiments-I tested my Boss BR-600 digital recorder with the PX-560, did 2 separate tests.

 

First, I fired up a BR-600 factory rhythm-it has a bunch of these pre-programmed-just drums, not other tones. Set the tempo to match my PX560 auto-arranger tempo started up the one and punched up the other. I had to manually hit start on the BR and had to get it just right, but yep, both stayed in synch perfectly for at least 3-4 minutes, didn't test longer than that. did not drift at all. also tried by starting the BR-600 and triggered the PX560 auto-arranger with the keys-same result. and the BR was running on batteries and was still stable.

 

Next-I recorded a song recorder song into the BR-600's recorder. Then I played that back at the same time as the PX560's song recorder-same song. i did this to see if my recordings on the BR or other digital recorders would stay in sync with the PX560-and it worked. I haven't tried this with more than 2 devices for recording-but firing up 3 separate devices-the BR-600, a Yamaha QY and the PX560 song recorder or auto-arranger-it all stayed in sync!  For my recordings, this is a wonderful revelation. look at all the expensive and complex alternatives to syncing-yes there are still ways I could use clock sync to make recording easier and if I needed to use older tape machines, I don't think this would work either, as even the best tape machines were never very stable speed-wise. But if you need to record non-midi equipment and sync it with the PX560 or possibly other Casios that don't have midi clock-I have a Malletkat and Yamaha wind controllers plus acoustic instruments-here is a very nice easy way to do it. Like Brad said, Casio has been making timepieces for a long...wait for it....TIME!

[Jokeyman123]

for anyone interested-I just ran a few more tempo sync tests with some of my older equipment against the XW-P1 and PX560-both of which stay in perfect sync without sync clock in or out. I fired up some arrangements from my Equinox, SY77 and TS-12 all older workstations. Everything clocked perfectly-I am still amazed-I did not think these older keyboards would do this-gotta hear what 5 keyboards sound like playing slightly different arrangements, and all in sync-and all with no midi clock sync. I am impressed. This means one could create entire sections with each keyboard and midi sequence recorders-and these will stay in sync-I tried various tempos, beats, auto-arranged rhythms, "combis" which are Twiddly Bits loops that are programmed into the Equinox-plus a few things I've done over the years with the SY77. every XW sequence stayed in perfect sync with everything else. This, just my opinion is very powerful stuff. Just passing it on.