r_1159 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Hello everyone I believe I had reported this issue with CTX. So the rhythm lags when chaning from one variation to another in DAW. It has a sudden stop as soon as the variation is changed and then the rest of recorded rhythm beomes totally out of grid. Any fix to this issue ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casio_style Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 This problem can only be solved by Casio's engineers, if they want to, of course. Probably something is wrong with the USB midi driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 When you say with a DAW, do you mean you are trying to record the rhythm accompaniment parts with variations to DAW as a midi file, then play this back into the Casio, or are you using your computer's soundcard or a virtual synth to play back the auto-arrangement parts? This sounds like another USB foobar-as casio_style said. The arranger parts have alot going on midi data wise-several tracks plus all the possible cc and program/bank changes that might be going on. Might just be too much for the USB-I'm assuming you are using a USB midi connection, and not a midi din connection since I don't think the CTX's have midi din. Trouble with this d*** USB stuff-the cables were never designed for too much data going in both directions-were designed for printers, cameras, scanners where data did not have to go very fast in either direction-and the USB connectors never were designed for error-correction-2 way in and out. Unless the USB drivers are designed real well, there will be problems like this. I don't know how fast the CTX CPU is, but i would 'guess" this is more of a USB connectivity problem than a CTX CPU but I could be wrong. How to solve this...maybe a beefier USB cable if there is such a thing...what computer are you using, and which DAW? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 21 hours ago, casio_style said: This problem can only be solved by Casio's engineers, if they want to, of course. Probably something is wrong with the USB midi driver. The DRIVER for Windows is written by Microsoft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said: i would 'guess" this is more of a USB connectivity problem than a CTX CPU but I could be wrong. How to solve this...maybe a beefier USB cable if there is such a thing...what computer are you using, and which DAW? This would new my guess as well. We'd need to know more about your setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 I'll do some testing on my setup this week and let you know what I find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Alex Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Well this is old known problem. Casio USB MIDI IN has very low performance, so playing any more or less complex midi file via USB MIDI IN will cause a lot of troubles. Same midi file when copied to usb flash drive and played from there, has no issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_1159 Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said: When you say with a DAW, do you mean you are trying to record the rhythm accompaniment parts with variations to DAW as a midi file, then play this back into the Casio, or are you using your computer's soundcard or a virtual synth to play back the auto-arrangement parts? This sounds like another USB foobar-as casio_style said. The arranger parts have alot going on midi data wise-several tracks plus all the possible cc and program/bank changes that might be going on. Might just be too much for the USB-I'm assuming you are using a USB midi connection, and not a midi din connection since I don't think the CTX's have midi din. Trouble with this d*** USB stuff-the cables were never designed for too much data going in both directions-were designed for printers, cameras, scanners where data did not have to go very fast in either direction-and the USB connectors never were designed for error-correction-2 way in and out. Unless the USB drivers are designed real well, there will be problems like this. I don't know how fast the CTX CPU is, but i would 'guess" this is more of a USB connectivity problem than a CTX CPU but I could be wrong. How to solve this...maybe a beefier USB cable if there is such a thing...what computer are you using, and which DAW? Yes I record a normal midi file with the rhythm accompaniment parts to DAW and I use a printer cable. This happens during recording when chaning variations. I tried different cables but same issue. I use cake walk by band lab. I may upload a video here later. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_1159 Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Mike Martin said: This would new my guess as well. We'd need to know more about your setup. Hi Mike Just explained my setup above Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 52 minutes ago, r_1159 said: Hi Mike Just explained my setup above Thanks What kind of computer, what kind of DAW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_1159 Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Mike Martin said: What kind of computer, what kind of DAW? Hi Mike I am using Cake walk and my lap top is an Inspiron Dell Lap top with 16GB RAM and is pretty fast. I tried this on my other laptops too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 If there is a way to test USB data transfer rates in real time-not just the type of data such as does Midiox, I would be interested to see a factual assessment and comparison between USB ports on various keyboards, controllers etc. I know what these are supposed to be theoretically, but if anyone knows of a software or hardware measuring tool that could test these rates, post it here. I bet its pretty slow across the board. USB was never designed for the amount of data needed by many music functions, its there because it is cheaper. Even my old Atari 520ST-FM had midi din ports-and I was able to record, play and transfer data with no problems, even on a machine that would be considered non-functional today-but it wasn't. When I first tried USB connections for music, I was surprised it worked at all, with anything. Unfortunately without a din port option, there is not much an end-user can do-even with the best of systems-if the hardware isn't there, it isn't there. Even with a super-powerful CPU-the bottleneck is the USB connection, it is a serial protocol running through some pretty thin wires and connectors. Baud rates for serial connections are basically the same din or usb, but din has dedicated UARTs for error-checking, buffering and optoisolators for-well-isolating-garbage in the line. USB keyboards don't have any of this-it was never a part of the design, for computers, printers or anything else. I'd be delighted and surprised to see any of this kind of circuitry in any USB interface. Casio is just doing what everybody else is doing. Most musicians using controller keyboards won't have problems with a USB connection because a controller is not typically sending/receiving multiple tracks of midi data in and out of a computer unless it is a professional workstation, not a controller which is designed to output one track at a time, or cc or sysex messages. Not too demanding a task, and all i would ever really expect any USB music device to be capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 This is a interesting bit of tech info re USB, reiterates what I've described, and compares firewire-which I've used for video streaming-I have kept several older laptops with firewire interfaces specifically for the reasons that are described by Presonus. Actually, after all the audio lag I've gotten with a Behringer USB audio interface-I've decided to step backwards-to a firewire audio interface, just for giggles. not much more expensive than a USB, but then this is a discussion of midi usb not audio, and there are no keyboards I know of that ever had a firewire rather than a USB midi interface. needs different drivers too. Too bad, might have been a better idea..... https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210046023-Should-I-choose-a-FireWire-or-USB-audio-interface- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 Nice thought Jokeman, Firewire unfortunately as a format at this point is dead. There were a few keyboard products that supported Firewire audio directly. I was actually involved directly with the development of mLan (Kurzweil / Presonus / Yamaha) and other Firewire products for years. USB is fast enough - the MIDI Spec still is the ultimate bottle neck. Doesn't matter if it is USB 2, 3 or anything else. MIDI has a set transfer "baud rate" even if it is running on a faster "pipe". Give me a few days to dig into this issue and try to replicate in on my end and then report to Japan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_1159 Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 Here is one example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Alex Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Issue not related to USB speed at all. MIDI port speed is about 31250 bytes/sec or something like that. It was handled ok by PC's 40 years ago already. The issue is with Casio itself. And it is not related to DAW. Same midi file, same DAW, plays just fine on Yamaha PSR E-413. I posted a sample midi file here couple of month ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 I’m already in a dialogue with Casio HQ about this. I’ll keep everyone posted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Alex Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Hope for some solution, seems like my separate post about exactly same issue was not enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 46 minutes ago, Just Alex said: Hope for some solution, seems like my separate post about exactly same issue was not enough Sorry Alex, I wasn't aware. Been busier than ever and unfortunately I don't think anyone ever reported anything to Casio customer service. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Key Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/19902-phrase-pad-of-ct-x5000-does-not-record-all-notes-of-the-tone-774-dance-5/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Key Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Just now, Casio Key said: https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/19902-phrase-pad-of-ct-x5000-does-not-record-all-notes-of-the-tone-774-dance-5/ Hello, @Mike Martin. Are you aware of the recording problem of the Phrase Pad on the CT-X5000? Is CASIO going to get something fixed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faz726 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Assuming baud rate is bits/sec and not bytes/sec, then MIDI port speed becomes about 31250 bits/second. With start, stop and parity bits (if indeed required by the MIDI standard), actual bytes/second would be about 3kBytes. Is the Casio keyboard acting as the host? If so, then as Just Alex mentioned above, it is not related to DAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Casio Key said: Hello, @Mike Martin. Are you aware of the recording problem of the Phrase Pad on the CT-X5000? Is CASIO going to get something fixed? I saw this and have also mentioned this to HQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Key Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Thank you very much, @Mike Martin. You are the man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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