Casio firmware related queries

[witterace]

Hello,

Fellow casions(lol)🎹

I currently have CTX 8000IN running with latest v1.07(factory installed) firmware.

I was thinking about few things:

1. Is it possible to flash global CTX 3000 firmware in CTX 8000IN and vice-versa?

2. Will my Casio get bricked if I try to install old or global firmware?

Thank you

[RogerBannister]

1. I'd imagine no, it would be a bad idea even if it were possible.

2. No idea.

 

The firmware only contains minor improvements, unless you are affected by a particular issue that a firmware update might solve then I wouldn't worry about doing it.

[Jokeyman123]

I don't know of any Casios that can revert back to old firmware versions once you update. Very rare that you can do this for any keyboard  from any company, unless

 

1) the company allows you to 'reverse engineer" thier firmware which usually they don't-they want to keep their firmware codes only accessible to them for a few reasons

 

2) You are a knowledgable enough programmer to know what you are doing if you do manage to 'dis-assemble" the firmware code

 

3) if the chip or CPU used to store the firmware code can even be accessed at all-there used to be 'eprom" chips that could be re-programmed or re-flashed, but you need the proper equipment and knowledge, and the firmware must be accessible-most manufacturers now are not using eproms for their ICs as far as I've observed from dismantling many pieces of gear. 

[Chandler Holloway]

3 hours ago, witterace said:

1. Is it possible to flash global CTX 3000 firmware in CTX 8000IN and vice-versa?

2. Will my Casio get bricked if I try to install old or global firmware?

Thank you

 

1) No. Firmware updates won't be accepted if the internal device number (VID/PID) doesn't match the update file.

 

2) Probably, which is why the VID/PID safeguard exists.

 

Even if you could do it, updating the firmware wouldn't give you access to new tones or rhythms. The exclusive samples from the CT-X3000/X5000 are stored in ROM, and can't be exported or imported to/from the keyboard. If your keyboard doesn't have those samples, changing the firmware is not going to suddenly make them appear in ROM. 

 

The .TON files for custom User Tones (which can be imported and exported) are just modifications of the factory preset samples, they're not actually new waveforms.

 

The Rhythms from the CT-X3000/X5000 series are transferrable to the CT-X8000IN, and you can find a link to an archive pack where you can download all of them in my signature right below this post. A few of them might need to be tweaked in the Rhythm Editor if they contain tones exclusive to the CT-X3000, but in my experience, there are only a handful of files that would need editing.

[witterace]

Thank you @RogerBannister and @Jokeyman123

So, my keyboard will not brick if I try to do either of those things right?

Yes, I agree with you that a manufacturer will never allow to do so but as we have seen in .TON files that just changing keyboard name in header allowed us to use files in both the variants.

Therefore, I was thinking if we could do the same for the firmware.

Also, I suppose the change of sustain(3000) button to touch(8000IN) is based on the firmware being used.l would like to know your thoughts as well. 🎹

[witterace]

@Chandler Holloway

That means I can install old firmware right? and is there any way to unpack/reverse engineer .upd file?

Also, where can I get the list of samples for the respective models?

Sorry, where is the signature you talking about?

Thank you for your help.🎹

 

 

[RogerBannister]

Not sure why you still think this is a good idea, you run the risk of bricking your keyboard.

I doubt you will get any pointers on reverse engineering the firmware, I assume it's Casio's intellectual property and there are Casio reps on this forum.

[Chandler Holloway]

2 hours ago, witterace said:

@Chandler Holloway

That means I can install old firmware right? and is there any way to unpack/reverse engineer .upd file?

Also, where can I get the list of samples for the respective models?

Sorry, where is the signature you talking about?

Thank you for your help.🎹

 

 

No, you can’t “revert” to a previous firmware version, and there’s no reason to do so. Newer firmware updates only fix minor bugs, you’re not losing out on any features by having the most recent firmware.

 

The appendix for the CT-X8000IN should have come with your keyboard (you can find it on Casio’s support website if not). It contains a tone list. My signature contains a link to the CT-X3000/X5000 tone list in spreadsheet form. Open both lists and do a side by side comparison for yourself.

 

You’re not missing out on much content at all. It’s not worth the risk of bricking your instrument or the effort it would take to understand and modify the update file. I don’t know how to do it, and if I did, I wouldn’t tell you because (again) it’s not a good idea.

 

There are ways to get around the lack of a sustain button on the CT-X8000IN. The most obvious one is to get a sustain pedal, which offers way more flexibility in performance settings than a sustain button. The main advantage is that it’s hands-free, but it also means you can control exactly when notes stop sustaining.

 

All the panel sustain button actually does is increase the release time of whatever tones are assigned to the keyboard. Each note will sustain for longer when it’s toggled on, but the added release time is static, unlike the sustain pedal where you can hold notes for as long as you want (again, completely hands-free, which is why this is a better solution).

 

If you really don’t want to use a pedal, just open up whatever tone you want to add more sustain to in the tone editor, increase the release time as needed, and then save those edits as a custom User Tone. If you want to quickly switch between the original tone and the custom tone with added sustain, just save them in two separate Registrations. Registration A will have the original unsustained tone, Registration B will have the custom tone. When you want to switch, just press that Registration button. Boom, you’ve got a sustain button, and you didn’t even have to brick your instrument to get it. 

[witterace]

Yeah, @Chandler Holloway bro I am using that right now thanks for telling me it's just increase in release time.

Any idea what value of release time the sustain on represent ?

 

[Chandler Holloway]

Probably between +20 and +40. It shouldn’t matter though, you’re adding release time on a tone by tone basis so just do whatever sounds good. Just increase the value until it’s as sustained as you want.

 

I would again recommend just getting a sustain pedal. They’re not expensive, and they’re very versatile on the higher-end CT-X models. You can use them for sustain purposes, but also as a footswitch to start and stop Rhythm playback and as a way to cycle through Registrations hands-free.

 

Casio’s SP-3 is a good low cost option, but the M-Audio SP-2 isn’t much more expensive, and it gives more of a piano feel. It also has the benefit of being a switchable pedal, ensuring compatibility with gear from other manufacturers (a good investment if you eventually upgrade from the CT-X or acquire other gear to supplement it).

[Just Alex]

Well, while I'm no hacking specialist by any means, I can say that sounds are contained within firmware - this is a compressed image, which gets "unzipped" while being installed, this is why it takes so long. And while technically it is possible firmware to have different sounds inside, I guess no one at Casio is going to do update to built-in sounds.

 

Of course, there are CRC checks so you can't install different firmware such easily, but technically, they're fixable. Either in software way, or hardware way. I've seen an example, when guy turned his Yamaha PSR E-413 into E-423, by soldering directly to EEPROM chip and replacing firmware that way. But not all features worked and it was not so stable, so I don't suggest that approach to anyone else.

 

All modern keyboards in fact are a mini-computer, with ram, rom and CPU, so all sound effects are being created purely in software - all these DSPs, LFOs and others are just pieces of software. So if casio desires, they can make extra or less polyphony (by reducing or incresaing say number of DSP effects used in realtime) But all this is time consuming process and no one is going to do it, especially for keyboards which are being phased out.  This is consumerism world - you're forced to buy and buy more and more, product lifecycle had been reduced quite much, and no one will provide you with ALL features you need in next purchase - if you're happy now, you're not going to spend more money, right?

 

 

[witterace]

Yeah, @Just Alex I agree with you most companies do plan obsolescence for their products. I dropped a message to @mrmr9494 he told me that he will attempt to read ROM of CT-X keyboards.

 

Thank you for your suggestion @Chandler Holloway and replies @RogerBannister @Jokeyman123

Music makes us brave🙂🎹

[Just Alex]

And by the way, it is indeed possible to extract sounds from firmware of various keyboards - for example, there are Russian guys, who reversed the Tyros keyboard firmware and created VST instrument, based on it's sounds (it is named Tyrus and you can download it).