Feature Request for Future Synths: More Registration Slots

[jeffn1]

I have a pretty simple request for future Casio Synth models. 

 

I play in a bunch of rock/pop cover bands.The pro type members here seemed to say (as I understand it) you should usually be dealing with saved Registrations, rather than presets or even user sounds.

 

But, if you saved every sound from every song in a registrations, you would run out of them pretty quickly.  And loading them from an SD card does not seem to helpful because it does not just add to the slots that are always accessible, but replaces the current bank.  I don't see how I can keep track which when to swap out banks on the SD card in the middle of gigs.

 

So, my request for future synths is virtually unlimited registration slots.  (At least 1,000, but the more the better).

 

If the cost of memory is the issue, let me save unlimited (or thousands of) registration on an SD card (I see ones for sale with up to a terabyte).  Considering you are just keeping commands in memory (not actual audio or video), I do not think you really need that much memory to provide an virtually unlimited number of registrations slots. 

 

But, the key is you have to let me store thousands (optimally) of registrations on the card without having to swap out banks in the middle of a performance (all registrations should always be easily accessible).

 

So, that's my request, for what it is worth. 

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

[RogerBannister]

Interesting suggestion but I'd imagine the only person who would use 1000 registration slots would be you!😀

[jeffn1]

8 hours ago, RogerBannister said:

Interesting suggestion but I'd imagine the only person who would use 1000 registration slots would be you!😀

Thanks for responding, Roger.

 

I am not so sure.  It seems some of the more pro oriented players say that you should use Registrations almost exclusively for all your (pop/rock) songs.  That way you can call them up quickly and you know they have all the settings you want for that song. 

 

I think anyone playing in rock/pop bands may play hundreds (or more) songs over their career.  Also, I often need multiple registration slots for a single song  because I can play several different sounds within any particular song (switching between synth sounds, string sounds, organs, etc.).

 

Am I the only one the finds the limited number of registrations a constraint?

[casio_style]

The synthesizer can save data in the All Data format. With this data saving, everything that is on the synthesizer is saved. For example, you can configure all 16 by 8 slots of the registration banks and save All data as.
Let it be like 16 fully tuned songs.
Next, you can load new Styles, create new User Voices, and also set up all 16 banks, and again save them as all data by giving it a different name. And you can do this as many times as you like.
All data is quickly loaded into the synthesizer, probably no more than 10 seconds. And you can download this data as needed in performances.The main thing is to remember in which banks the songs are stored, for this you most likely have to get a notepad for notes.

And yes, so as not to accidentally lose everything, copy all the data to another USB flash drive and also save it on your computer.

[jeffn1]

Does this apply the same to the CTK7200?

[casio_style]

38 minutes ago, jeffn1 said:

Does this apply the same to the CTK7200?

Yes, but they may take longer to load all the data.
I checked, my CTK 7000 downloaded all the data in 1 minute 30 seconds. For performances, it will probably not be very fast.
And the CT X3000 downloads all the data in an average of 7 seconds.
Perhaps CT X can also load a little longer, I do not have all the slots for styles and tones still occupied, but it is still faster.

[jeffn1]

As a fan of Casio keyboards, I would still argue it would really help gigging musicians if they had immediate easy access to (virtually) unlimited Registrations without swapping banks.

 

Thank you for responding to my posts.

 

Jeff

[Chandler Holloway]

How many different songs are you playing in one gig? I've never played a gig that called for more than 128 unique set-ups in one sitting. Certainly never played a 129+ set-up gig that was so frantic and rapid-fire that I never had any time to load new data at some point throughout the entire show.

 

In practice, I'd contend that a serious gigging musician would be willing to spend a bit of prep time swapping out banks as required for their upcoming setlist, especially when the Media menu is just a few button presses away and a flash drive has all the storage space you'd ever need.

[Jokeyman123]

Are you trying to do this with one keyboard, geez I hope not.

 

 Here's a question-let's assume you have 1000 registrations, or even half that-how fast do you think you can sort through that many? Seems to me-you need a system that will automate your registration selection, no matter how many registrations you use, and I don't believe any Casio can remotely switch registrations automatically-I don't think the midi implementation can do this.  Now you know why keyboard players always used multiple keyboards, daisy-chaining midi keyboards for layered/split sounds on several different keyboards.  I've covered 100s of songs myself-and unfortunately many of the recent complex covers are being produced automatically anyway-or have 2-3 keyboard players. I only have 2 hands-I've been watching show bands on cruise ships (before the pandemic)-to see how the keyboard player is covering for example an entire show-with only a handful of pit musicians. Most are using at least 2 keyboards (what I've done mostly) to swap sounds or layers on one, while playing the other with a footswitch-or playing a one-handed part. Duos I've seen, keys and guitar for example-are playing 1-2 tracks live while having all the other parts automated through a computer DAW or hardware sequencer. When i go back out, I wouldn't even think about-depending on repertoire-an automated system if I needed to cover more than 2-3 parts live. Registrations-wouldn't help all that much-unless i had 2-3 different boards that each had preset registrations in an order easy to remember so I could swap entire keyboards. Set lists are bad enough-good luck. 

[jeffn1]

Thanks so much for participating int his discussion.

Chandler, let's say I have 750 songs.  In any gig, the set list may include songs from several different data bases.  So, it does not work to just change data bases depending for each gig or even between sets.  I have to have quick access to all song set ups.

Jokeyman (so glad you chimed in, I read your posts and have watched your videos), I do use two keyboards:  a CTK7200 and a PX350 (I also use layers and splits, but, of course, that requires using up a Registration).  It is a very good a versatile set up (and I use both pretty effectively, I think).  I just wish I had quick access to all the registrations I could possibly want. 

At one point I tried to experiment whether I can have a midi commands (from Mobilesheets) to change each set up.  I am still looking into this (though, even if it works, I do not love the idea of connecting another cable). (I don’t try to play recorded sequences and I do not try daisy chain.).

The CTK7200 current has 16 banks of 6 registration buttons.  If it had 999 banks and, instead of one bank button, it had 3 bank buttons (for 3 digits), this would be a huge benefit.

I could quickly type in the bank I need (000 to 999) and then have the current 6 registration buttons for each bank. This would provide immediate access to 6,000 registrations (and up to 6 for any one song).  (If it had 2 bank buttons 00-99, it would provide 600 registrations, which would go a long way.  Of course, I'd prefer three buttons so I can exclusively use registrations without worrying about ever running out).

For me this would be a big benefit.

Jeff

[Jokeyman123]

Here's another idea, since I am pretty sure even with several separate keyboards completely filled with pre-programmed registrations would not help much-and thiee ideas might not help much either, might be a slight step up-but would require a Casio or other keys capable of setting up performances-and you might need 2 keyboards, or hex "layers" set up into multiple zones-you can do this with the XW-P1 but only with 4 zones in a performance, but hex layers can be split on the keys, although 61 keys won't help much. The PX560 can do the same-and over 88 keys might be better-unfortunately you'd need to invest in one of these-or another workstation that can do multis. At least this way (and one of my uploaded PX560 sounds does this with 6 different instruments across the keys, but with a very limited range) you could have a hex program a little more rapidly accessible for songs that require say a brass section simultaneously with a woodwind or synth hook, then switching to an organ and piano part all with one hex layer program-and this can be saved a s one registration. And since you can set up a fairly large number (nowhere near what you might need i admit) of hex tones like this-at least you could have a good few dozen different tones available by switching hex layers. The PX560 can access 2 different hex layers instantly from the main menu screen-, and with some planning-you can layer the 2 hex layers. Might save you some time. I am trying to visualize what repertoire you need to play-give me a few examples in a set list-where you are needing to get to alot of sounds at once. the one show band i was able to see close-up-the keyboard player was covering strings, pianos, organs, brass, synth tones, other instruments hooks and sound effects-not sure exaclty what he was using-and even some percussion. Drum tracks to add to the drummer's live playing-and the only other personnel consisted of a guitarist, bass player and 1 brass and 1 woodwind player-covered the entire show. So the keyboard player had to work awfully hard to get through it all. nd the Broadway pit bands I've seen-same-the keys now have to cover a ton of parts-not easy since these crews have gotten smaller due to the technology-but the keys have to cover everything else. 

 

if you have completely different styles/setlists to cover-I can see-you need an entirely different setup to cover a synth-heavy band as compared to say Motown-based, traditional older tunes, as opposed to many of the current tunes which are so overdubbed and studio-produced, for covering live can't be easy. I watched McCartney live covering Sgt. Pepper tunes-guess who had to do all the french horn and other orchestral parts George Martin created in the studio-with written scores....And then a hard-core rock band, although most times, all I need are a few good organ tones, some cutting pianos, maybe some guitar-lead sounds to annoy the guitar player-if there is one! But then, you can always comp parallel harmonies over his/her chords to do that-keep that trick to yourself. 

 

 

[casio_style]

2 hours ago, jeffn1 said:

 

The CTK7200 current has 16 banks of 6 registration buttons.  If it had 999 banks and, instead of one bank button, it had 3 bank buttons (for 3 digits), this would be a huge benefit.

 

999 banks for registration will not be soon ...
Based on what is now, in your case, to save and load registration banks, it is better to use a regular laptop, tablet or even a smartphone (on iOC) with the Data Manager installed on them via a USB connection to the synthesizer. In this case, it is quite convenient to search for them on a large enough screen and they load quickly.

[jeffn1]

Thanks. Yep, didn't expect it soon.

 

The way I function, (in addition to some jazz gigs, playing just piano) I am playing in several rock/pop bands (not my day job).

 

I try to get a lot of bang for the buck (thank you, Casio!) and use the $$ on duplicate keys.  So, I have two CTK7200s and three PX350s (I just bought probably one of the last newish (I think it was a return) ones available), so I don't have to tear down my rig at my home (I use the 2nd PX350 for gigs and I am keeping the third PX350 at my band's rehearsal location).

 

When I practice my keyboard parts, I note all the sounds on the charts (which I keep in a Mobilesheets on an Android).  So, I don't have much need for other keys.  I want to always use the same keyboard set up I practice with.

 

Anyway, the point is, I am probably set now for a few years.

 

But, I am keeping my fingers crossed that, when I do a big keyboard change (in a few years), Casio may have adopted my suggestion.

 

Jeff

 

 

[casio_style]

Tones on a synthesizer or digital piano can be selected and turned on using the midi commander apps for android. It's free, there is a google play, I use it sometimes. There is SysEx support. In one setup, you can configure 256 tones. (There will be 256 buttons to turn on tones) It can also control the synthesizer controllers in real time. So you can also research this application, perhaps apply it in your speeches.

[casio_style]

Some addition to the midi command.
If you use it with the CTK 7200 synthesizer, then it is really possible to use up to about 500 timbres in one setup. The fact is that the tones on mixer A are turned on by the SysExes, and the tones on the mixer B are switched on by the usual Program Change and MSB. That is, by pressing one button on the midi commander screen, you can immediately turn on different tones on Mixer A and Mixer B. At the same time, they can be used immediately as a layer or used separately. To do this, you will need to configure the buttons for selecting the first tone or second. Usually, these buttons just control the volume on mixer B (they just turn on the volume, for example, at 110, and the other just sets the volume to 0) And the volume on mixer A is controlled by sysex. In total, only 4 commander buttons need to be allocated for this.
As a result, we can play with a layer, the first timbre, or the second timbre.
To use the commander in this mode, you will need to enable the midi-tru option on it
 Configuring all 256 buttons on the commander as you need, of course, will take a lot of time, personally I myself have not configured so much, I just did not need to.

[jeffn1]

Thanks, Casio_Style.  I think that is all beyond my technical ability.

 

I am still hoping in the future Casio expands available Registrations in its new keyboards to 1000 or so (the more, the better).

 

Thanks, everyone!