I'm not following the Key follow concept

[perldude]

I programmed the Joe Walsh "Lifes Been Good" sequence.  I enabled key follow to drop from 'A' based to 'G' at the required measure but it is not working as expected.  Regarding break point the manual says "point between C and B where key shift drops the octave when the key is exceeded.  Basically nothing I do seems to make the octave drop.  The key follow range seems to be only between the lowest C (the note corresponding to the musical key the sequence was programmed (in this case A) and ascending from C up the sequence follows to a max of B.  Now, I have programmed the solo channel to 1 so I can have a custom tone.  The manual also says that key shift doesn't work for control 1-3, and my tone is on 1, but key shift is working, just not the break point.  Does any one have a clue why my break point is not working.

 

For a follow on question, is there a way to perform the key shift from a external keyboard midi controller?  When I assign my keyboard controller to the tone it just plays an independent tone over the sequence.

 

Thanks,

 

[Jokeyman123]

I need to know-are you in "sequence" mode or "performance" mode when trying to do this?

 

I've been trying to understand what is happening here-thought I knew my way around the XW-P1 pretty well.

 

Key follow is an attribute for programming a tone-and presents a gradual change, used for filter, loudness or pitch unless I misunderstand what you are trying to do, or what the XW is capable of doing. A breakpoint or key shift, at least on the XW as far as I know, is not the same as "key follow" a common setting on just about every synth I've owned which I've used to for example-make upper octaves gradually brighter in tonality, or louder, or even slightly alter or detune a span of notes-the Px560 for example has a setting for "stretch tuning" which is a form of key follow-in that it is slightly changing the pitches of the upper octaves, since the human ear tends to hear equal tempered notes as sounding slightly flat going up the octaves from what I recall.

 

  By changing the key follow setting-within a tone-you can effect a gradual change of any of these characteristics (timbre, volume or pitch) across a given span of keys, or across the entire keyboard, but i am not aware that key follow can effect a "key split" -a distinct change in pitch of an octave. Key follow is completely different than a key shift or break point between adjacent notes.  I guess I am not quite clear what the manual is trying to say in your quote "point between C and B" etc. but then i never really could make sense of that in the first place either. If you are in sequence mode, the split points or octave shifts need to be set in a different way than in performance mode-where different keyboard zones can have octave adjustments-up to 4 zones each can be set independently to whatever octave you want-but then these will "hard-wired" into your individual performance once you save it. and then you can set each zone to respond to individual midi channels for external control-there is where you may be able to octave shift for each zone with an external controller, but I haven't tried that either. This to me, is a very deep, complex machine, and even after years of use, i still only know the half of it! Like learning to play an entire orchestra, by yourself.....

 

As far as key shift from an external controller, I've never tried it, and I'd have to study the detailed midi implementation chart for the XW, i have it somewhere, not the simplified typical midi imp. chart at the end of the user manual. Sorry i couldn't be more direct solving your problem. AlenK might still be on the boards, is much more knowledgable than me with the XW-and Brad may also have a better grasp of this.

[perldude]

My apologies,  I  used the  wrong term, I  should have said "Key Shift".  And I am in "sequence" mode.  Sorry for the confusion.

I did have the key shift working at one point, at that time I couldn't get it to drop one octave when crossing over  the threshold as explain on  page E-57 in the manual.  Now I can't get Key Shift to work no matter what I try to do.  Getting my XP1 to work consistently has been a source of great frustration.  I'm at the point where I would be willing to pay to sit down with a pro!

[Brad Saucier]

Key shift?  I'm not entirely sure I'm following your post correctly.  Key shift works in performance mode, if you turn key shift ON in the performance edit menu, under sequencers.  

[Jokeyman123]

Ok, I think i see why you aren't clear on this-the manual's use of words isn't always the most intuitive-but if you study through many of the posts here under XW-P1, and find the post listing all Mike Martin's video tutorials-you will have a professional sitting down (or I think he was standing for some of these🙃) with you to clearly show some of the best video demos of how to play and program the XW.

 

Now what this breakpoint description is trying to say-when you create a sequence or series of sequences in the different parts-some of your notes/pitches or even individual drumkit sounds-may go out of the range of the original octave you used to originally create the sequence, when you use key shift to change to a different key signature with the keys for a style of auto-accompaniment. The breakpoint is the point where-if a note goes beyond that breakpoint-at either end of that octave range-it will shift it down an octave, or up an octave, depending upon which way the sequence exceeded the octave you played in. so some of your original sequence may sound different than it would have in the original key.  At least that's how i understand it. And there is also an on/off setting for keyshift within the sequencer mode, and performance mode which of course must be turned on for using this sequence in performance mode. I think-but I am not sure-keyshift must turned on in both sequence, and separately in performance mode if you wish to live transpose your sequence attached to the perfomance mode, I'd have to check my XW to review if i recall this correctly.

 

I have had to suss out many pretty deep workstations-for example the original Ensoniqs including the MR/ZR76 and TS12-their manuals were i recall around 600 pages!!!  The Alesis Fusion is also a brain-buster, I've cracked its code (mostly) too. The XW-definitely competes with these for complexity it is a deep instrument-actually it is several deep instruments. I try to approach it that way-you (Or me and I have!!!) can spend way over thousands-to buy as separate components-what the XW can do in one cabinet if one knows how. Step sequencer-a programmable digital VA synthesizer, a PCM synthesizer and multi-zone keyboard, an organ modeller with drawbars and even a bit if a vocoder if you watch Mike's video about synthing (is that a word, well it is now!) your voice through the XW's audio input. OK, its not a 3-4000 workstation or Akai MPC, Deepmind, Octatrack etc. but is a sort of swiss army knife of the synth world, yes it takes alot of work to figure out how to use even half of it IMO!

[Jokeyman123]

PS-Perldude, working my way through the Ferrofish-made a special case for it so i can mount it under my keys-not quite where it would be on a Hammond-my arms are only so long (!) with an 88-key keyboard to put it all the way over the side-but underneath, where i can grab the drawbars and still have 2 hands on the keys-directly underneath the pitch and mod wheels. Wow is this a solidly made piece of equipment-and the drawbars are definitely the right size-full size not like slider/drawbars on many other workstations.

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Jokeyman123

[perldude]

Nice piece of woodworking to did there!

I made a PVC fixture and bolted it to a laptop stand (originally intended for installation in a car) bolted to my rig stand.

[perldude]

Jokeyman123

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Posted March 28, 2014

OK, another XW-P1 stumper. Sequences will transpose with keyshift button selected on got that.  But there seems to be different key split points for different preset sequences or performances and I'll be darned if i can find how to set or modify this, or how it is programmed into the presets. Some sequences will only trigger transpose with lowest 5 or so keys, others are up an octave. Is it done through performance zones with a sequencer "attached" to the performance? Or is it set as part of the sequence preset itself? I can't tell, and the manual/!@#$%%^!!  I see how to set zones in a performance, but which zone is triggering the keyshift transpose function? And sometimes at random the keyshift works, and sometimes it doesn't, with the same sequence or performance, must be a bug or I don't understand something inherent in the system (I'm being repressed-Monty Python). I still haven't discovered what's going on here. HELP ME

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Interesting!!  I'm working on what you are discussing with regards to the zone settings.  Clearly, at some point you had a similar issue.  Basically, the breakpoint setting doesn't do anything.

[Brad Saucier]

What in the world is going on in that post?  😳

[Jokeyman123]

Got a little side-tracked with the ferrofish-perldude had one i noticed in another post. This is about the XW and apparently setting up keyzones in sequences and performances. If you can help, jump in. I'm going to a friend's funeral this morning, this will have to wait. Not a happy day.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jokeyman123

[perldude]

Jokeman123,

Sorry for your loss.  Take your time.

[Jokeyman123]

Thank you. Was a hard day. Got to sing some good church hymns this morning, get out some of that grief.  Perldud, I will keep trying to help you through the intricacies of the XW. Brad-if you wish to move these posts to another area if too inappropriate here (I don't know how) as an administrator, absolutely OK.