Variable Speed Rotary for PX-560?

[newtocasio]

I recently downloaded the "Organ & Wurly 1.0.0 hex layer and registration from the user downloads section for the PX-560.  This registration has the rotary rotary or leslie effect attached to the modulation wheel. The description for the download suggests trying all values of the wheel since the speed will increase exponentially.  Indeed, various positions of the mod wheel seem to allow greater and greater speed, not just fast or slow speeds.  Am I reallynot hearing multiple speeds? Is this really a variable speed rotary effect, and if it is, how is that accomplished? I haven't been able to create this effect on my own although I've only been trying to figure out the PX-560 for a couple of weeks now.

[Brad Saucier]

The modulation wheel, knobs and expression pedal can target a number of parameters for each DSP effect.  One of the targets can be "fast rate".  This is the rate at which the speaker will spin in fast mode.  So in summary, instead of  setting "speed" as your target, set the target as "fast rate".  Make sure the speed mode is in the fast position to make this work.  Of course, save this setup as a new registration if you want to save the settings.  

[Jokeyman123]

The PX560 Leslie simulation I seem to remember basically has only 2 speeds, fast and slow, and the rate of speed for each can be programmed-how fast, how slow-I will try this out-never noticed his program before-I'm guessing he is using LFO's somehow to get that pronounced speed variation effect. And the leslie effect can be switched form fast to slow with a pedal, or as Brad said the wheels or the knobs. I'd have to look again-I'm not sure the speed of the ramp up and down can be changed-how long it takes for the leslie effect to go from fast to slow or slow to fast, I think it can be. I'll study this over tomorrow. He must have some settings stored in the registration, since I do not think all these effects can be programmed in just with a single tone or even the hex layers, I could be wrong. His programming sounds really good IMO.

 

OK-I jumped on this as i was curious-this is the best Leslie simulation I've heard out of the PX560. The effect works only in upper 1, not upper 2, which this user has set up in the registration once you load his registration in place. This is a limitation of the PX560-only upper 1 uses DSP. But this is very clever-i am getting a true variation in speed with the mod wheel very nicely done. And the knobs have been programmed to bring in different parts of the hex layers to "open" the organ sound-just as if one is using drawbars. I also found-he used an 8 foot sample for every hex layer-but by changing each layer in the hex layer to a different organ sample (there are many in the PX560) one can get an even more variety of organ sounds out of this, and just save the new selection of hex layers as another hex layer tone-all the other leslie and knob settings will be intact, as long as one uses the same registration, or makes a copy in a new registration with these same settings. Very nice!

 

Let me qualify my auditioning this-the knob settings are getting saved in the registration-not in the hex layer tone, but the settings in the hex layer must be programmed in so the knobs will recognize those settings-at least that's as far as I can tell. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Jokeyman123

[AlenK]

Speaking of the rotary speaker effect in the PX-560, I finally gave it a critical listen. It _seems_ to have separate rotation of bass and treble, like most Leslie speakers and unlike the rotary speaker emulation on the XW-P1. Am I just imagining that or do others hear it the same way? 

[AlenK]

No one has listened  to the PX-560’s rotary speaker effect or cares about its authenticity? 

[Jokeyman123]

If you insist.....I'll check it out.  Was out on the mothership for a spin.... Apparently only you and I seem to be paying attention lately-well then there is Brad and Joe M. And Mike Martin checks in. I also have the Ferrofish B-4000+ and the Fusion's Leslie effect is not too terrible to compare-both do have separate speed settings for the Leslie horn driver and the bass speaker.

[Jokeyman123]

OK-after about 15-30 minutes of listening-to all 3 Leslie effects from the 3 different "boards"-the 560 effect is using the same slow/fast rotation for the lower and upper Leslie effect-still a very nice simulation IMO but the speed setting is varying both the lower and upper rotation at the same rate-I'm not sure this can be reprogrammed to split the effect-have to study a bit more-but both the Ferrofish and Alesis Fusion can set these rates independently-and also can set the ramp speed up and down separately. The Ferrofish in particular is pretty powerful with these settings-even the eq can be set separately for the horn and the bass-only one control from bass to treble but still is effective.

 

So no, I don't think the bass and horn are rotating at separate speeds with the 560-the "apparent' effect is very good though-playing lower octaves-I did not hear any rotation at all with the slowest modwheel setting-it seemed to follow the speed of the horn setting with the mod wheel. I only used the organ tones the original programmer used.

 

I plugged in a few other PX560 organ tones I had edited into this registration-pretty hastily-just to hear the results and it only confused the issue. I still like the way the 3 dials bring in simulated drawbar settings-very effective even compared to the Ferrofish and Fusion. The Fusion can also do this with its 4 knobs as controllers, and saves the knob settings with individual tones, not with registrations as does the Ferrofish-it is a tone module, not an efx pedal.

 

The 560 arrangement of registrations is the best AFAIK of all the Casios-fast and simple. I can flip though every registration in about 20 seconds! Well maybe 30....OK 45!!! And the touchscreen-still a beautiful thing.

[Brad Saucier]

Casio's rotary DSP effect was not stereo in the early days starting with MZ-2000.  It didn't pan left and right with rotation like it does in late models.  It was mono.  Instead, the early version had independent hi and low frequency rates simulating independent dual rotating speakers.  I just uploaded the MZ-2000 MIDI implementation where it is documented nicely, page 38.  At some point along the way (not sure which model was the first to make the change) Casio switched to a stereo rotary effect where the sound pans left and right, ditching the independent high and low freq rates in the process.  I'm guessing it was done since both effects at once is more difficult to implement, and that stereo panning makes for a more impactful first impression.  

[Jokeyman123]

If I go out in a PA system, I go stereo and that would be one reason, that and the stereo pianos.

 

Even though the original leslies of course were in one spot-Robbie in our "Blue Angel" rock band-would set up his 2 Leslie cabinets in stereo (!)-one one side of the stage, and one on the other side. Talk about stereo! would in a sense cancel each other out a bit, but at that level of volume, I never noticed! Had to have his Hammond modded to be able to have 2 Leslies connected, I don't remember how he did it. but i distinctly remember having to carry both in my Chevy long van back in the 60s-70s. My how things have changed.

[anotherscott]

An actual Leslie is inherently somewhat stereo, in that the sound emanates (at different times) from different points in space, but those points are not all that far apart, so to that extent, the stereo-ness is minimal. But since they are most often played indoors, room reflections come into play, which increases the sense of stereo. In a larger venue, to get enough volume, a Leslie will be miked up, but they are often miked in mono (one microphone on top, one on bottom), so the effect to the audience through the PA is mono. On recordings, a Leslie can be mono or stereo, though if stereo, it is unlikely that the two upper microphone signals will be panned hard left and right. It might be done for effect, but spatially, it wouldn't sound much like an actual Leslie (unless maybe your playback speakers are as close to each other as the two sides of a Leslie cabinet are). Similarly, in a live situation, if miked in stereo, I would not expect the Leslie's mikes to be panned hard right and left, unless desired for effect (i.e. it would not sound very faithful to what you'd be hearing directly from a Leslie).

[Jokeyman123]

One aspect to this, I've just realized-what's missing from all the simulated Leslie speaker effects I've worked with-that beautiful massive "whoosh" sound one can hear coming out of the cabinet when the lower drum is rotating around the woofer. Not all Leslies rotated the lower drum I recall, but the ones that did-usually not too audible to an audience, but live on stage in close proximity to one-was magic, added to the blanket of sound a real miked tube-amp  Leslie could push out. Listen to the wonderful intro to Chest Fever by The Band's Garth Hudson to get a wonderful example of that delicious low-pitched growl out of his setup. I can get close but if I could fit it, I'd just put a good 122 back in my music room! My buddy Artie kept his in his living room alongside his immaculate B-3. Good memories!