CT-X models do not have aftertouch!

[AlenK]

Let me repeat that for anyone who thinks otherwise: None of the CT-X models have aftertouch. The keys are velocity sensitive, just like a lot of other keyboards Casio makes. The harder you strike them, the louder the sound and for some sounds (perhaps even many of them), the "stronger" the timbre. Casio calls this "touch response," a term that is unfortunately a little too close to "aftertouch." 

 

Aftertouch is a feature that causes a change in the sound when you press on a key AFTER you have hit it and it has reached nearly the bottom of its travel (aside from the small amount it moves when you press on it). Aftertouch is also called "channel pressure" in the language of MIDI because the harder you press the larger the effect (and it affects all notes on a given MIDI channel). 

 

Today, only fairly expensive keyboards include aftertouch. You certainly aren't going to find it on keyboards anywhere near the prices of the CT-X models. (Note that there is also something called polyphonic aftertouch whereby the effect of aftertouch is separate for each key, but that is extremely rare.)

 

Why post this? Because there are a lot of confused people out there who seem to think otherwise. Just check some of the YouTube videos concerning the CT-X. I have tried to correct this misconception but I probably won't be able to; there are just too many people who don't know they don't know.  

 

I think some people simply don't understand the difference between aftertouch and velocity sensitivity. But it turns out, in the case of the CT-X models much of the blame is actually on Casio. Page EN-8 of the CT-X700 manual refers to "touch pressure (touch response)" and "keyboard pressure (speed)."  This is just plain sloppy on Casio's part. Doesn't anyone who knows anything about keyboards check the technical accuracy of Casio's manuals before they are released? Don't bother answering; the question is entirely rhetorical. 

 

PS. Given the discussion below about responding to aftertouch data received via MIDI, I will clarify here that the words "None of the CT-X models have aftertouch" above refer to aftertouch generated by the instrument's own keyboard. 

[Rudolph R-N R]

Allen, i helped a friend buy a keyboard a few years back and was really surprised at how much there was to know.  He knew nothing.  There’s a basic education about features and specs that takes some time to absorb, and much of it is related specifically to digital keyboards. It’s very similar to computers, it helps to know some basics.

 

 Was helping my sister out recently, she’s in the same boat, and like many uneducated buyers, she wanted a piano that was just a piano, she didn’t even know basics like layering with strings, splitting, etc. etc. Then there’s the fun facts about knowing how to get a good deal.  My buddy, another newbie, went to GC and paid full retail!  

 

It can take years, sometimes painful experiences, to get up to speed.  I’ve made some very expensive mistakes with buying gear, buying features i thought i wanted and didn’t know enough to look at user friendliness!  The Motif XS7 i bought for around $3,500, fetched $1,400 about 3-4 years later, a painful lesson!  I gave up on the board, found it incredibly frustrating to do what i wanted.

 

Randy

[Chas]

Of my collection of 34 keyboards (ranging from "toys" to pro level boards), only five have velocity AND after touch, and all were flagship models:

 

Casio CZ-1

Casio VZ-1

Casio MZ2000

Casiotone CT6000

Korg DW8000

 

The Korg's keyboard, despite having velocity and after touch, is not of a very good quality (they're known for all manner of failings as they age). Despite being Korg's flagship model, the physical construction is where they cut corners. All the R&D went into it's digital/  analogue hybrid sound engine. The CT6000 is a real oddball, being as it's a preset instrument from 1984 that predates Casio's full sized CZ synths. In 1984 though, it was Casio's top of the range consumer keyboard costing more then than the CT-X costs today. In real terms, the CT6000 would cost many times what a CT-X costs. The CZ-1 and VZ-1 were both flagships, both have good keybeds with the VZ-1 feeling exceptionally high quality (and still working perfectly). The MZ2000 also has a wonderful and quality feeling keyboard.

 

Point being, all these were high end models. The CT-X is not aimed at the same market sector, it's more built down to a price. And if you build it down to a price, if you try and put high end features into a lower budget construction you end up with a keybed that might give problems down the line as per the DW8000 (it's sound engine was phenomenal, the build quality wasn't).

 

Saying that, I am surprised that Casio hasn't developed a more cost effective way of incorporating after touch into their more recent models. I remember being surprised that the XW's didn't come with it in 2012, especially when the CT6000 had it almost 3 decades earlier in 1984. One issue that might have been a factor is weight - the CT6000 (and CZ-1/ VZ-1) are physically heavy synths. Maybe after touch would add too much weight, which might have been an issue for both the XW's and CT-X models as one of the major design features and selling points was how light and portable these more recent Casio models are. 

[Casiokid]

With regard to the quality of Casio keyboards I would add that in my experience, despite their low cost and budget build quality, their internal components and keys can withstand a lot of rough treatment,. I've seen Casio keyboards thrown into the back of cars and vans time and again, without being in gig bags or cases, but amazingly they still  operate! -Which says a lot about their low budget construction?

 

I have owned much more expensive keyboards and organs which in comparison with Casio are flimsy.  Yes the noisy Casio Key-bed comes in for a lot of criticism on this forum, but Casio keys have never let me down unlike so called 'quality' instruments where I've put out keys playing glissandos.

 

It's interesting to note too, those instruments that have let me down are those manufactured in Italy?  I believe some of Korg's products also come from Italy??

[Chas]

With regards to Korg, this link suggests that they do indeed have a subsidiary in Italy since 1995.

 

www.solidthinking.com/pdf/CS0902_E001Korg_eng.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiskaLq8YLaAhVFRK0KHYCpDPUQFjAAegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw1lo3dhG_aF1OgjniMyVdlQ

 

My Korg DW8000 is from 10 years earlier and Japanese made. As was the Korg Poly 800, also renowned for poor build quality. Numerous other manufacturers also had keyboard/ build quality control issues, such as ARP and even some Moogs.

 

As for Casio, their construction and build was top notch until the latter 80's. The early CT's, MT's and the "wood" Casiotones we're beautifully built and have a substantial and quality feel. It was the HT's from 87/ 88 where construction costs were clearly seen to have been cut, with much cheaper and flimsier plastics being used. Same applies to the late 80's/ early 90's MT/ CT models. Casio didn't show such high standards of build again until the MZ2000 and some WK series boards.

 

I guess that as the consumers want cheaper keyboards with more features, the only way that Casio can do that at the prices they do is to make them less substantial. Also, despite feeling light and flimsy, the XW's are pretty solid instruments. The plastic used is more flexible, thus it will withstand knocks and bumps better than thicker and heavier, but more brittle plastics used on so called "quality" instruments.

[AlenK]

Korg's PA series of arrangers are designed in Italy. You can tell they aren't like other Korg keyboards at all. But like most other keyboards, Korg or otherwise, they are probably manufactured in a China. (Although the top-end PA4X may be an exception; I heard it is still assembled in Italy.)

[XW-Addict]

Went out to try me sum CT-X today, It sounds inspiring there are sounds in there that gives the creative

jitter-bug and make music, Heck it sounds darn good for that level and price. The guy at the store said 

it will take a while before they have the 3000 and 5000. 

 

This keybed is also something it feels different then WK, LK and other CT types a week of keyboard 

pouncing should test its sturdiness. I don't have high expectations of a CT keyboard but these new 

sounds makes a big difference some even put a smile on the face. 

[mirka]

16 hours ago, XW-Addict said:

Went out to try me sum CT-X today, It sounds inspiring there are sounds in there that gives the creative

jitter-bug and make music. 

I don't have high expectations of a CT keyboard but these new 

sounds makes a big difference some even put a smile on the face. 

 

Nice !  Could you be more specific about which instruments that was. It is pleasant to get as much positive infos as possible, since we have to wait so long before getting our X3000 or X5000 !  Thanks.

 

[- T -]

Alen

 

To add to the confusion about "Aftertouch", many of the mid-range keyboards that do not generate/send/transmit it, will respond to it when it is received from external MIDI sources.  This is economically feasible, as receiving and responding to Aftertouch is cheap.  Manufacturing the keybed that generates it is the expensive part.  Those units that do respond to Aftertouch will certainly list that feature in that unit's MIDI Implementation Chart, but all too often, that term makes its way into the unit's Spec Sheet, where to the uninitiated, it says "Hey! I do Aftertouch".

 

Ted ( - T - )

 

[XW-Addict]

16 hours ago, mirka said:

 

Nice !  Could you be more specific about which instruments that was. It is pleasant to get as much positive infos as possible, since we have to wait so long before getting our X3000 or X5000 !  Thanks.

 

It is the CT-X 700.

[Chas]

16 hours ago, - T - said:

Alen

 

To add to the confusion about "Aftertouch", many of the mid-range keyboards that do not generate/send/transmit it, will respond to it when it is received from external MIDI sources.  This is economically feasible, as receiving and responding to Aftertouch is cheap.  Manufacturing the keybed that generates it is the expensive part.  Those units that do respond to Aftertouch will certainly list that feature in that unit's MIDI Implementation Chart, but all too often, that term makes its way into the unit's Spec Sheet, where to the uninitiated, it says "Hey! I do Aftertouch".

 

Ted ( - T - )

 

 

Does anyone know if the CT-X has the ability to respond to after touch via MIDI? 

 

I have heard of some older synths with non velocity sensitive keyboards that will respond to velocity via MIDI (the Roland JX-3P is a case in point), but don't know of any that will respond to after touch unless already equipped with a velocity and after touch sensitive keyboard.

 

I'd be curious to know if the XW-P1/ G1's could respond to after touch seeing as they are a much more modern design. I don't recall reading anything about it in the manual, not that I was looking hard for it mind!

[Display Name]

30 minutes ago, Chas said:

 

 

Does anyone know if the CT-X has the ability to respond to after touch via MIDI? 

 

 

Hey Chas! Long time no talk (we still need to get together -- I'll let you know when I'm on the Gulf coast!)

Anywho, the CT-X700 manual shows it receives aftertouch (channel pressure). What parameters you can route it to I don't know, but it's there. :-) 

[- T -]

Chas

 

According to their respective MIDI Implementation Charts, the XW-P1/G1 and CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX all respond to Channel Aftertouch.  Even my old 2006 WK-3800 workhorse here responds to Channel Aftertouch.  Really, I suspect that most of Casio's boards do, but it is very rudimentary.  Its effects are not assignable to higher order functions, such as volume, pan, envelope cutoff, LFO, etc, but is limited simply to modulation (vibrato).  Whoopee!

 

- T -   (Ted)

 

[Chas]

On 25/03/2018 at 11:19 AM, Scott Hamlin said:

 

Hey Chas! Long time no talk (we still need to get together -- I'll let you know when I'm on the Gulf coast!)

 

Hey Scott! My little studio is just about sorted, and it's in a preliminary up and running state. Whenever you are over in this area, give me a shout and come on over!

[Display Name]

On 3/29/2018 at 12:38 PM, Chas said:

 

Hey Scott! My little studio is just about sorted, and it's in a preliminary up and running state. Whenever you are over in this area, give me a shout and come on over!

 

I'm actually going to be out that way next month visiting the local music stores and training and demoing the Casios (including the CT-X700!). I'll be in touch! 

[skyy38]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:34 AM, Casiokid said:

With regard to the quality of Casio keyboards I would add that in my experience, despite their low cost and budget build quality, their internal components and keys can withstand a lot of rough treatment,. I've seen Casio keyboards thrown into the back of cars and vans time and again, without being in gig bags or cases, but amazingly they still  operate! -Which says a lot about their low budget construction?

 

I have owned much more expensive keyboards and organs which in comparison with Casio are flimsy.  Yes the noisy Casio Key-bed comes in for a lot of criticism on this forum, but Casio keys have never let me down unlike so called 'quality' instruments where I've put out keys playing glissandos.

 

It's interesting to note too, those instruments that have let me down are those manufactured in Italy?  I believe some of Korg's products also come from Italy??

 

CASIO keys are indeed built for the "long run."

 

My CT-670 and WK-1350 are still testament to that fact, even though I have NEVER abused them-they were always "Studio Babies" and THAT is where they have remained!

I also have a 28 year old 6 Head VCR from Hitachi, that I have used for a mixdown deck and nothing else!

 

In two years, I'm going to throw it a birthday party!

[Jokeyman123]

Generalmusic S3 turbo-polyphonic aftertouch-and a very sturdy mechanical keybed. had it for a long time, beat to h*** and it still worked, Kept my Equinox which has aftertouch, not polyphonic-which can be used very expressively for keyboards that have it. Both made in Italy, designed by MIT engineers among others, credits are in the manuals.Mine still works, must be at least 20 years old.

 

Pressure-sensitivity requires a separate  control strip-eons ago, a manufacturer was even making the pressure-sensitive strips to fit under keyboards, and connected through midi din. Manufacturers still make pressure-sensitive strips to control various electronic signals, I'd researched to see if a hack could be made to add pressure sensitivity to 'VELOCITY CONTROLLED" keyboards.

 

As far as Italian construction, watch what you say, my Uncle Nino Pasquale plays keyboard and might be offended, I'll have to kiss his ring to calm him down.😜

 

I'd be more concerned about Chinese construction more for availability of parts than anything else. But then most manufacturers aren't much better.

[mike71]

Ihave a keyboard with aftertouch. the Kawai K5000. I have opened it, and o my big surprise on the keybed assembly there was a sticker "controllo qualità 2" that is clearly in Italian, puzzled I started to search and found that the keybed was actually made by FATAR in Recanati (Italy) - and spares for the keybed are available.

I agree that with Chinese made products and the long and complex chain of suppliers and sub suppliers finding spare part is difficult because nobody has a complete spare parts inventory.

 

Do you remember when TV sets came with a schematic diagram and there were TV repair shops? Now modern LCD TV sets are cheap and because nobody can find cheap spar parts, it is easier to too an almost-working TV set than repair it.

[methodman3000]

Can't you pencil in aftertouch  on the computer program if you record the x3000 into a sequencer?

 

[methodman3000]

I owned a Kawai K5 additive synth and I bought James Chandler's presets for that.  I had no idea of how to use it to program for many years.  Now that I have been exposed to what it can do I no longer own it.  I gave it away to a Piano Tuner and re-builder because I thought he might find it interesting?

[kurth]

actually ...today, one can purchase a keyboard for $120 with polyphonic aftertouch. The arturia keystep. Problem is, it only has 32 keys.

[Mike Martin]

24 minutes ago, kurth said:

 Problem is, it only has 32 keys.

 

32 MINI-keys.  I'm quite certain it is channel aftertouch, not Poly-Aftertouch. 

 

[kurth]

They call them slimkeys. Like the korg minilogues. Between minikeys and 5 1/2 inch synth keys. Arturia doesn't say but you're probably right. Not sure I understand the mechanical difference between the two aftertouch's, but would guess that if it has the aftertouch strip beneath the whole keybed, it would probably be channel. I believe the op was referring to channel. There are a number of controllers with aftertouch starting even cheaper than $300, with full size semi weighted keys. The point being that aftertouch is no longer limited to expensive boards. And many of those once expensive keyboards, are now alot cheaper...like the alesis qs6, which has a fatar keybed and aftertouch, and can be had for 200 bucks.

[Jokeyman123]

Polyphonic aftertouch-each individual key will respond differently-very tricky to play-the Generalmusic S2 and S3 could do this-I had an S3 turbo for quite a few years- built like a tank. For example-one note can be bring in a layer, while another note doesn't, based upon pressure on iindividual keys. another example-vibrato can be applied as aftertouch pressure in one note of a chord, while other notes will not add the vibrato. Whatever you can program, and with these keyboards there were 8 possible layers I recall-can be controlled with pressure aftertouch. One rather weird application of this-in a chord-depending on pressure-you could bring in 3-or 4 or 5 or how many notes in a chord-different instruments-on the same chord, based upon how much pressure you were placing on each key. Why you'd want to do this I could never figure out, but it was interesting. Not too practical for most styles of playing,  but...interesting. Fatar keybeds, made in Italy on the S series-my Equinox too, but not as sturdy a build as the S2 and 3, but sounds were somewhat improved. Insanely complex instruments though, many of the sounds in my PX560 I first heard on the S3 turbo. And had a marvelous ring modulator and could do PWM for some really insane digital sounds I think if I remember correctly-beating 2 PWM against each other in and out of phase, like the oldest analog synths could.