MZ-X300 Game over!?

[petersohn]

On 7/9/2018 at 10:23 PM, Brad Saucier said:

It all depends where you look.  MZ-X Indonesia Facebook Users Group has over 2,800 members and is quite active with a nice file sharing section.  

 

This is another reason why the successor to the MZ-x series should be created.

 

 

 

MZ-x has a lot of possibilities, but it's in the first place the aranżer / keyboard so it should contain:

1. Good on-board styles - you run the keys and want to play - that's what Yamaha gives you, most styles are weak and sound bad at Casio. We managed to create a nice Global Rythms package - why isn't there such a style in the instrument?
To match the competition of Yamaha and Korg there should be at least 400 of them.

2. The new sounds of the Aix module - mainly acoustic sounds and new multilayer samples of acoustic drums.

3. A new set of effects - (available in the new Ct-X Series) will significantly improve the sound of the MZ-X Series

4. The ability to use the entire memory of the sampler without limitations - now uploading more samples causes the sounds to disappear from the instrument and choke while playing.

5. Using the registration without any limitations - is it not possible to save the registration on the usb memory as in Rolands?

6. separate Upper1/2 , Lower1/2 buttons would be useful - but this is a secondary matter.

7. Use the sliders to actually control the volume of the individual parts of the instrument.

8. a larger touchscreen display - but of course it's a dream.

Better promotion of the new Mz-x series - although the keyboard will sound good, the new owners will advertise it the best.

Unfortunately, the current Mz-x series on most demos sounds poor - just like the old Ctk series, it sounds much worse than the competition of Yamaha, Korg, Roland and this is the main reason for poor sales.  When mz-x appeared it was underdeveloped and cost over 1000 Euro. - this could not be a success of the sale.  Casio should give you a lot more at a better price when introducing a new product.  I hope that Casio engineers and managers will learn from this.

 

[Rick Stirling]

As evidenced by this and many other threads here, I think many people here think of 'Casio' as a monolithic entity responsible for all that happens to Casio products (good or bad). I think the the truth is that it is much more complicated than that. I don't purport to know all the relationships between the myriad offices of 'Casio', but I think it is safe to say that Casio Japan is NOT responsible for all marketing and support of Casio keyboards around the world. There exist many 'sales companies' around the world that may or may not take direction from Casio Japan. Given that there are Casio sales companies who are independent of Casio Japan, is it any wonder that product marketing efforts can vary so greatly from country to country?

 

Bottom line? We probably should not put all blame on Casio Japan for the lack of marketing and support by the independent sales companies.

[Silvano Silva]

3 hours ago, Rick Sterling said:

As evidenced by this and many other threads here, I think many people here think of 'Casio' as a monolithic entity responsible for all that happens to Casio products (good or bad). I think the the truth is that it is much more complicated than that. I don't purport to know all the relationships between the myriad offices of 'Casio', but I think it is safe to say that Casio Japan is NOT responsible for all marketing and support of Casio keyboards around the world. There exist many 'sales companies' around the world that may or may not take direction from Casio Japan. Given that there are Casio sales companies who are independent of Casio Japan, is it any wonder that product marketing efforts can vary so greatly from country to country?

 

Bottom line? We probably should not put all blame on Casio Japan for the lack of marketing and support by the independent sales companies.

In the MZ-X issue I believe that Casio Brasil works very well, there are many tutorials thanks to Fabio Augusto

What is not up to them is the part of software and hardware.
Roland Yamaha and Korg are companies already established here in Brazil
Casio is starting to get accepted by both professional users and sellers.
But it is not yet complete.

[CoreyW]

I agree with Rick.  Casio is a very large company with separate sales divisions in many countries.  While Casio Japan may be the main company, in most cases it is up to the individual divisions to decide how to market a product line in their respective countries as well as determine whether or not a product line might be successful.  It might be that a country could import only a small number of a product to make that determination.  Casio Japan may rely on the input from the sales divisions as to whether or not they believe a product is or will be successful.

 

In regards to the many comments about upgrading the MZ-X product line, I'm sure those like Mike Martin and various others who promote Casio listen to customers and pass those comments onto Casio.  But remember that not all those potential features mentioned will make it into the current (or next) product.  There's many features I'd personally like to see added to the MZ-X line, but many of the features would be only for my convenience and may not be suited for every player out there.  For years I was (In fact, still am) a Yamaha supporter.  I still own many Yamaha keyboards.  I still have my original DX7 I bought in 1987 which still works great.  I still have a DX21, SY77 and have gone through a myriad of PSR series keyboards.  The latest being an PSR-S900.  In my opinion, the MZ-X500 has features and sounds the S900 doesn't and the S900 has features and sounds the X500 doesn't.  I guess the bottom line is for one keyboard to have everything one would want in a single keyboard is just not reality.  I used to own a Tyros 4, but sold it when I bought the MZ-X500 because I felt I wasn't using the Tyros enough to constitute keeping it.  Plus, it was a heavy beast!!  I starting using the X500 more that it replaced the Tyros and worked perfectly in that role.  Believe it or not, some of the sounds in the X500 just better suited me.  It all depends on how you use what you have.

 

OK, I'm not one to pick at anyone, but I'd like to comment on some of petersohn's "wish list" items:

 

1. Good on-board styles - you run the keys and want to play - that's what Yamaha gives you, most styles are weak and sound bad at Casio. We managed to create a nice Global Rythms package - why isn't there such a style in the instrument?
     I haven't found much wrong with the available styles, but again individual tastes vary.  There are those styles that "pop" and those that are ehhh.  However, if you feel a style is weak, edit it and make it your own!  In fact, with the ability to import styles from Korg, Yamaha and Roland, etc...I've actually added styles from the S900 that I use more regularly.  With the ability to create your own styles, the possibilities are endless, so what more could you want?  In fact, if you come up with some good styles you can always share them with others in the forum!  Some I've seen are rather unique.
 

2. The new sounds of the Aix module - mainly acoustic sounds and new multilayer samples of acoustic drums.

3. A new set of effects - (available in the new Ct-X Series) will significantly improve the sound of the MZ-X Series

     The AI-X chip seems fabulous.  From what I seen on YouTube, the sound is really awesome.  This chip was probably still in development when the MZ-X series was developed.  Could the new sound engine be available for a new MZ-X keyboard...HMM...maybe.  I guess time will tell...but I don't think any company would tell you what they have planned because that would hurt current sales of products already on the market.  Especially those that would be discontinued when the new product is announced.

 

5. Using the registration without any limitations - is it not possible to save the registration on the usb memory as in Rolands?

     If I'm not mistaken (Brad and Rick your input here), but I thought that you could save registration banks to USB?  I've not had to do this yet...

 

6. separate Upper1/2 , Lower1/2 buttons would be useful - but this is a secondary matter.

     These are already on the LCD and dedicated buttons would be a nice feature, but it all comes down to the cost for those buttons.

 

8. a larger touchscreen display - but of course it's a dream.

     All comes down to cost.

 

All added hardware comes down to cost.  Casio did a great job of keeping the cost of the keyboard down with the features that were included with MZ-X series as it stands now.  And, those features are many.  No, it's no Yamaha, Korg or Roland, but the features are good for a board around the $1k price point.  The fact that you can load samples and make your own sounds using the Sample Manager software for a keyboard around that price is phenomenal.  I've created many sounds and a couple of drum sets using TR-808 and the old Seeburg/Gulbransen Select-A-Rhythm samples.

 

I just wish the PX-560 had some of the arranger features the MZ-X does because of the touchscreen interface.  For example, on the MZ-X, I can and have assigned all sections as  "UPPER" or  "LOWER" for one massive tone OR even 3 tones to UPPER with 1 tone to LOWER.  I can't do that on the PX-560...bummer!!  So much potential there!!  Maybe they'd consider adding some of the features of the PX-5S.

 

Cheers!

[CoreyW]

Oh!  I did want to add a comment about memory...  How many remember the first CMI Fairlight?

     8 voices with 16k (WOW!) sample memory per voice

     Large 8" floppy drives, with a boot floppy that took like 5m to load.

     A mono color (green) computer screen with light pen interface

     88 note keyboard with keypad interface

     Page R sequencing software

Whoa...all that memory for $25K!!!  Boggles the mind.

 

My point...while 256M seems like a little, maybe Casio wanted to see how many people would actually use the Sample Manager software before investing and moving forward in that direction.

    

[Rick Stirling]

On 7/11/2018 at 1:24 PM, CoreyW said:

Oh!  I did want to add a comment about memory...  How many remember the first CMI Fairlight?

     8 voices with 16k (WOW!) sample memory per voice

     Large 8" floppy drives, with a boot floppy that took like 5m to load.

     A mono color (green) computer screen with light pen interface

     88 note keyboard with keypad interface

     Page R sequencing software

Whoa...all that memory for $25K!!!  Boggles the mind.

 

My point...while 256M seems like a little, maybe Casio wanted to see how many people would actually use the Sample Manager software before investing and moving forward in that direction.

    

 

I do, and if I remember correctly, a fully tricked out Fairlight would set you back more than $100,000 😉

 

Here's a fairly comprehensive list of artists who recorded with the Fairlight...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight_CMI#Artists_who_have_used_the_Fairlight_CMI

[Muso7]

Hi guys

Regarding the OT it seems that the MZ is still readily available here in Oz but can't comment about manufacturing.

I bought mine new with full 5 year replacement warranty for the equivalent of USD950.

 

It is beyond value for money. I have recorded with mine and it is quite amazing.

I think of mine as a workstation with a great arranger engine rather than the other way around.

 

I have a PA4X-76 at 4 times the cost and there are still features on the MZ-X500 that are on my wish-list for my PA4X!! Like "wav" recording, pedal configurations remembered in registrations, the terrific "freeze" button functions and more.... nice one Casio - you could end up easily in direct competition with Korg/Yamaha/Ketron/Roland if your marketing directors want to follow that market.

 

Anyhow, whether Casio drop the MZ series or not I'm pretty happy to continue with mine without any further changes.

(Having said that, it would be nice to know that they hadn't actually dropped it just yet.)

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[anotherscott]

On 7/6/2018 at 10:09 PM, AlenK said:

What we can conjecture is that sales of the XW models and of the PX-5S, which were Casio's 2012 and 2013 returns to professional keyboards were probably good enough to green-light development of the MZ-X models

 

I'm not sure I'd make that connection. Casio seems to pretty much split between "pro" boards that don't have speakers (like PX-5S and XW), and consumer/"prosumer" models that do (like PX560 and MZ-X). I'm not sure sales levels of the latter is necessarily tied to development of the former. From a pro perspective in particular, note that all the MIDI functionalities of the PX-5S and XW-P1 were omitted from the later PX560 and MZ-X (unfortunately). I think this indicates that they probably do not see these as follow-on "pro" products to those earlier models, even though many may be using them that way.

 

On 7/7/2018 at 5:13 AM, petersohn said:

another disadvantage is a limited number of registrations - which makes the key suitable only for amateurs, who treat playing as their hobby. 

 

I don't think that's the case. It has 96 registrations, which can be recalled pretty easily. Compare this to, for example, Roland VR-09/VR-730 (100 registrations, and awkward to call up any after the first 16), Roland Juno DS61/88 (128 performances), Korg/Vox Continental (16 scenes), Yamaha MX49/61/88 (128 Performances). These are not strictly amateur/hobbyist boards. I think the MZX actually happens to acquit itself pretty well here.

 

On 7/11/2018 at 3:22 AM, petersohn said:

7. Use the sliders to actually control the volume of the individual parts of the instrument.

 

At least you can do that from the Mixer screen. I do wish they had put that on the first Menu page instead of having to swipe over to the second page. (ETA: It turns out you can move it to the first page!)

[sslyutov]

On 7/8/2018 at 5:45 AM, Casiokid said:

Yamaha, Korg and Roland etc...don't have such a dynamic forum as this.  The short comings of Casio HQ is in my opinion  outweighed by the Administrators and members' input into this Forum.   I've learnt so much and am very grateful for all the help given, to enable me to get the most out of my Casio instruments... more perhaps than I could have obtained from Yamaha, Korg or Roland whose instruments do have their own shortcomings but whose user forums lack so much compared with this Forum.

 

Casio and Mike Martin have been very clever in creating this forum and providing such customer help and support which IMHO is second to none !

Korg - do not know.

Roland is boring.

But Yamaha has very busy forums. Just look each product individually.

[Silvano Silva]

1 hour ago, anotherscott said:

 

 

I don't think that's the case. It has 96 registrations, which can be recalled pretty easily. Compare this to, for example, Roland VR-09/VR-730 (100 registrations, and awkward to call up any after the first 16), Roland Juno DS61/88 (128 performances), Korg/Vox Continental (16 scenes), Yamaha MX49/61/88 (128 Performances). These are not strictly amateur/hobbyist boards. I think the MZX actually happens to acquit itself pretty well here

I disagree with the  as to how many memory registers are sufficient. The keyboards you quoted are synthesizers. They are synthesized for the sounds but the MZ-X memorizes sounds for the rhythms pads among other details. There is much more information to keep. Sometimes you repeats the same sound in memory but uses another rhythm with freeze off.

[sslyutov]

From my experience product from Roland and Yamaha leave a lot of open questions when you get them the first time.

Later you get used to imperfections and do not pay as much attention to that.

The major missing part on Casio instrument is an update of firmware. The most of mentioned here keyboards do not have such option.
I think only MZ provide this feature. 

Fixing errors and extending functionality through firmware would prolong the live-time of any product.

Roland has very advanced libraries of sounds.
It has an extremely open user interface.
Yamaha goes further in these terms it provides unique features.

However, I disagree that PX-560, 360, 160 are not professional instruments.
You definitely can perform using these keyboards.
The technologies used in Privia are designated for imitating of an acoustic Piano.

It was a huge problem for me switching from Privia to Roland FA and to Yamaha Montage (Actually I tried out all line starting from MX) 
Even Montage factory settings of acoustic pianos do not get close to Privia grand piano.
Lakely there is Bosendorfer library available free for Montage user which made me feel more comfortable.

It can be possible that the marketing strategy also reduces the value of Casio products. 
For instance, seeing a clearance of XW for ~$150 at Fry's or selling PX at the same store next to Roland Go-Key or Yamaha Piaggero does not add any reputation.

 

[Brad Saucier]

3 minutes ago, sslyutov said:

The most of mentioned here keyboards do not have such option.
I think only MZ provide this feature. 

 

XW series, PX-5S, PX-560, MZX series, CT-X3000/5000 all have been provided with firmware updates.  

[anotherscott]

22 minutes ago, Silvano Silva said:

I disagree with the  as to how many memory registers are sufficient. The keyboards you quoted are synthesizers. They are synthesized for the sounds but the MZ-X memorizes sounds for the rhythms pads among other details. There is much more information to keep. Sometimes you repeats the same sound in memory but uses another rhythm with freeze off.

 

Well the Roland DS has rhythm pads. But if the argument is that 96 registrations is insufficient for pro use because the Casio registrations also have to handle rhythm/accompaniment settings, I could look at that from the other side and say a lot of pros wouldn't care about the rhythm/accompaniment features, they could be choosing the board for other reasons. (BTW, just curious, are there arrangers in the MZ-X price range that support many more registrations?)

 

[sslyutov]

8 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

 

XW series, PX-5S, PX-560, MZX series, CT-X3000/5000 all have been provided with firmware updates.  

Good point.

 

What did get with updates?

Any new functionality (Like, a linear editor, DAW remote control, motion sequencer)?

[Jokeyman123]

Just a rather chilling and sobering aopinion about all this...my Generalmusic SK76 (gone now) and Equinox Not gone)  had every feature I have ever seen in any manufacturer's keyboards-8 sliders that served every function imaginable including controlling layers and 8 tracks of loudness, panning and others in real time-completely programmable-a sample editor built-in with compatibility with many sample libraries including Akai-the big player back then as well as wav files and others. 32- track sequencer with full editing capabilities. Could create an 8-part split/layer, and play it over the sequencer. Styles in the SK series were amazingly realistic-open-ended, fully programmable and even varied based upon the chord quality and what you used for the bass note-if you took the 3rd of the chord for you bass note it changed the style!

 

All this and guess what-they went out of business in a big and very sad way. Any music manufacturer, especially keyboards i can only imagine must be extremely careful about how they do anything-or they will be belly-up before any of us can play toodle-oo on our keyboards. I give Casio huge credit that they have been able to survive at all in this rather limited market considering how few musicians can actually get gigs professionally now except for the big money touring bands or as amateurs and support buying any new product at all.  Where do you think they make more money, keyboards or watches? I bet it's a close race. And recently I tried to get a few parts from  Roland as I own 2 partially functional Rolands I could repair easily-but they don't have the parts. and neither does anybody else. So much for the big boys.

[anotherscott]

On 7/6/2018 at 11:22 AM, Tson said:

In my opinion, and based on my conversation with the product manager, Casio has decided to stop production (or will soon) of the MZ-X

 

More evidence that the MZ-X is out of production and that Casio and its dealers are just selling off what's left: Sweetwater now shows "Hurry, limited quantity available" on the 500 (and the 300 is special order only). Sam Ash does not have the 300 on their web site. Thomann doesn't have either model on their web site.

[MANY]

 

Ce produit n'est plus disponible a la vente en Europe,  sur tous les principaux sites de ventes d' instruments de musique = remplacé par les séries CT X

 

This product is no longer available in Europe in all major musical instrument sales sites = replaced by CT X series

 

Question : Quel est le Pays et la région de ce forum ?

Question : What is the Country and Region of this Forum ?

Petit Bonjour de France / Hello from France....

[AlenK]

22 hours ago, anotherscott said:

 

I'm not sure I'd make that connection. Casio seems to pretty much split between "pro" boards that don't have speakers (like PX-5S and XW), and consumer/"prosumer" models that do (like PX560 and MZ-X). I'm not sure sales levels of the latter is necessarily tied to development of the former. From a pro perspective in particular, note that all the MIDI functionalities of the PX-5S and XW-P1 were omitted from the later PX560 and MZ-X (unfortunately). I think this indicates that they probably do not see these as follow-on "pro" products to those earlier models, even though many may be using them that way.

 

Could be you are right, but I was only considering revenue into the division from non-home keyboards. Whatever you may think of the PX-560 and the MZ-X models, they were a step above Casio's home-oriented keyboards at the time. By calling them consumer/"prosumer" I think you recognize that too. I would guess that when those projects got the green light Casio was transitioning from taking a run at the pro market (XW-P1, PX-5S) to retreating to only home keyboards again. That fits the timeline of that article about Casio's internal problems. Hence, the PX-560 and MZ-X models are in the space between. If they had not (re)abandoned the pro market then we would have surely seen the true PX-5S successor everyone was clamouring for, and the XW-P1 successor I was personally thinking they would need if they were serious about competing in the synth market. Instead, we got the PX-560.

[Silvano Silva]

We are being abandoned again by Casio. The professional market will be worse without competition.