XW-Addict Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Korg has done lots of innovative things with music creation and it just doesn't stop there there has been lots of new innovative synths in the making but there one synth from Korg that is the Proloque which makes me wonder if the name not suggest a new heading then just what it predecessor was. Anything else the Proloque has the usual inside, Except that one thing I'm not familiar with if any synth or keyboard has it and that the open api interface to create new oscillators and effects. I'm wondering if keyboard makers want to close the gap between desktop and synths by either make the synth more as the desktop or merge them together maybe I'm over thinking here. To me its quiet something else cause it seems new to me because its about sound creation in a familiar field from another platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslyutov Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I am not sure what you are calling "the gap between desktop and synths" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlenK Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hi XW-Addict, I am adding here some unnecessary carriage returns in your honour so that you can see how much harder it makes reading your posts. You have inspired me to format the next volume of The X-W Companion the same way. Why should I make it any easier to read? (I trust you got the point in what I hope is a humorous way.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 On 7/28/2018 at 1:42 PM, XW-Addict said: Korg has done lots of innovative things with music creation and it just doesn't stop there there has been lots of new innovative synths in the making but there one synth from Korg that is the Proloque which makes me wonder if the name not suggest a new heading then just what it predecessor was. Anything else the Proloque has the usual inside, Except that one thing I'm not familiar with if any synth or keyboard has it and that the open api interface to create new oscillators and effects. I'm wondering if keyboard makers want to close the gap between desktop and synths by either make the synth more as the desktop or merge them together maybe I'm over thinking here. To me its quiet something else cause it seems new to me because its about sound creation in a familiar field from another platform. What was Prologue's predecessor? "Prologue" makes me think "pro" "analog". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlenK Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 The Prologue's predecessor is the 4-voice Minilogue (and in a sense the monophonic Monologue). It's like a Minilogue on steroids with added features, like a third oscillator that is digital and very flexible. Many more digital effects, too. The two models have been getting good reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Those of you old enough to remember (not me certainly) the original analog and patch cord synths were your desktop! Check out the Fairlight and this without expansion packs and this was streamlined compared to the first patch cord synths. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/fairlight-cmi-retrozone My poor buddy kept his leslie 122 and B-3 in his living room when he stopped playing out. You could write notes and letters on the B-3 and he had a flowerpot on the Leslie (yes I know painfully sacreligious but he wanted to stay married) So that's already been nailed, I'm not sure I'd want that back. There is such good miniaturization now-it is pretty easy to create a complete music making system on your desk. I use the Korg microKontrol, Yamaha qy100, a small laptop and a Boss BR-600 which I use to connect guitars and has built-in stereo mics for vocals or acoustic instruments. And still have room for my bills and other junk. I wont talk about where all the Casios are, in case someone here figures out where I live-you'd probably trip on a keyboard and break your neck before you get to steal anything, I'm not too concerned. I use carriage returns when I have a very long post-to break up my explanations as someone here (I forget who I won't squeal) suggested. I think it helps to break up a long tutorial into segments or steps, especially with some of the more complex workings of (some of) the Casio instruments. Gives me a breather too. I certainly wouldn't overdo it. Unless I felt it necessary. Point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslyutov Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 13 hours ago, Brad Saucier said: What was Prologue's predecessor? Semi-pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XW-Addict Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Haha I'm overwhelmed not sure if I've put it correctly how to story my view. My question was to converse the digital cross breed between desktop synth apps with their fidelity get into a synth keyboard as bigger libraries and fidelity. These new engine's getting more to be the quality like audio interface to push digital even more but here is the thing I don't know what digital then means. Korg makes a synth which can be programmed with new oscillators and dsp. Dave Smith has a cross breed called Prophet X nothing new here there digital in it. So why should these be spectacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslyutov Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Software synth has to be rendered in order to provide quality sound. very inconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XW-Addict Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, sslyutov said: Software synth has to be rendered in order to provide quality sound. very inconvenient. No its not about putting a software synth in a keyboard, Nor its the process from rendering audio from another platform into one where oscillation is just described as being digital or analog. Its about the myriad processing of sound through software oscillation versus hardware one which exceed the limit of how many tones can be produced. And still retain a high fidelity. I remember some people trying doing that with the Kronos to have it produce more polyfone with a new pc board having more memory and more processing power in this case. Basically saying there wouldn't be a limit to how much oscillators the Kronos could produce with the quality of fidelity it delivered and polyfone. What does that mean, polyfone and oscillating tones/sound. Polyfone to say there no limit how much of tones can be produced without the sonic to break into bad audio artifacts. Does oscillation mean the processing capability to mangle sound until the limit is reach how many of these oscillation buckle by the limit of processing power. The way I see it the Prologue and Prophet X are exploring the middle of sound production. The first with creating other kind of oscillators what people imagine. The second from a library that originally could only be processed on a pc now in a keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 The first (and I think the last although I haven't bothered to research this) company that promised a new type of synthesizer that could be completely updated and changed through plug-in cards was Peavey. it never happened although they sold their keyboards based on the concept-and look what happened to Peavey's keyboard division. There isn't one. the big players want to keep their specialized sound design for hardware to themselves-look at Casio's PD sysnthesis with it's 8-stage enveleopes_I still don't see any keyboard or module using this actually very clever design for designing tones. So this is not a new concept at all-to have a hardware synth that can be completely changed from one sound-producing concept such as Yamaha's FM to another such as Korg's proprietary modelling synth engine by using plug-in hardware cards or modules has never really been done well. Copyright issues and different styles of engineering will never make this easy. Generalmusic had a staff of MIT engineers that developed their line of hardware, and look what happened to that company (I think some of them got jobs at Casio I see some design similarities?) And yes, software synths using soundfonts and CPU rendering-it works but not so well IMO. I have Coolsoft software synth with huge soundfonts as my sound source installed on all my Windows laptops and it works for midifile playback but for playing in real time not so much! It's one thing to record and edit audio files on computers-soundcards have been around for at least 2 decades-but to recreate the huge database of possible sounds now available in hardware-there will always be too much Windows services and applications competing for CPU time to ever make this an efficient way to create sounds for realtime playing IMO and I've been experimenting with this for years. and i don't see that newer versions of windows OS ever improved on software designed for recreating synth type sounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike71 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 A general purpose personal computer has now enough computing power to make sound syntheses. You could build a PC in a rugged case and make easily an expander. http://zynthian.org is one example using a Raspberry Pi as single board computer. Adding a keyboard is a MIDI or USB connection to the box: having this to be packaged I don't know if it's cost effective. By the way I think that a lot of people will prefer to show an illuminated fruit anyway, or more seriously, if you have to use a mulitrack sequencer and sampler, having a keyboard, a mouse and a big screen it's more efficient. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XW-Addict Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said: The first (and I think the last although I haven't bothered to research this) company that promised a new type of synthesizer that could be completely updated and changed through plug-in cards was Peavey. it never happened although they sold their keyboards based on the concept-and look what happened to Peavey's keyboard division. There isn't one. the big players want to keep their specialized sound design for hardware to themselves-look at Casio's PD sysnthesis with it's 8-stage enveleopes_I still don't see any keyboard or module using this actually very clever design for designing tones. So this is not a new concept at all-to have a hardware synth that can be completely changed from one sound-producing concept such as Yamaha's FM to another such as Korg's proprietary modelling synth engine by using plug-in hardware cards or modules has never really been done well. Copyright issues and different styles of engineering will never make this easy. Generalmusic had a staff of MIT engineers that developed their line of hardware, and look what happened to that company (I think some of them got jobs at Casio I see some design similarities?) And yes, software synths using soundfonts and CPU rendering-it works but not so well IMO. I have Coolsoft software synth with huge soundfonts as my sound source installed on all my Windows laptops and it works for midifile playback but for playing in real time not so much! It's one thing to record and edit audio files on computers-soundcards have been around for at least 2 decades-but to recreate the huge database of possible sounds now available in hardware-there will always be too much Windows services and applications competing for CPU time to ever make this an efficient way to create sounds for realtime playing IMO and I've been experimenting with this for years. and i don't see that newer versions of windows OS ever improved on software designed for recreating synth type sounds. I can see where you going at totally but maybe through the years oscillators became a misconception due to changes. When computers got involved in music creation in the seventies and eighties they basically emulated some of the synth concepts. Actually emulating how hardware oscillators like saw , sine worked very simple. Wave tables on the other hand changed the oscillator concept by scanning a sample filter it and what not. Take turbosynth for the mac back in the eigties in the exterior turbosynth was a soft synth to make synth sounds with all the basic waves. It would be treated a synth in a computer. But the interior actually was cutting edge something nobody understood only after decades when plugins start to emerge. Heck even I didn't know about turbo synth back being to occupied with synths like the CZ, DX etc. Any concept can be devised as an oscillator we don't know better anymnore what a synth sound should be as long if we have those basic types like saw , sines and fm. So if you give that away either by have someone program their own (this is an oscillator for) I dont know its my two cent view about the new up comming synthesis look for it at youtube people experimenting with their own oscillator design and how their handle LFO , ADSR in different way's. The reason I'm looking in both keyboards mentioned cause changes like those aren't easily noticed in the keyboard world with much interest as you said Jokeyman123 but could be game changing in the years to come the market moving rapidly nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XW-Addict Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 2 hours ago, mike71 said: A general purpose personal computer has now enough computing power to make sound syntheses. You could build a PC in a rugged case and make easily an expander. is one example using a Raspberry Pi as single board computer. Adding a keyboard is a MIDI or USB connection to the box: having this to be packaged I don't know if it's cost effective. By the way I think that a lot of people will prefer to show an illuminated fruit anyway, or more seriously, if you have to use a mulitrack sequencer and sampler, having a keyboard, a mouse and a big screen it's more efficient. http://zynthian.org It can be easily be something like this, It has all the elements of control surfaces and nine engines meaning nine different oscillation types to create sound. Casio has not been sitting still ctx, wk , px have their own oscillation concepts so yeah its all relative 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I stand corrected-but still not clear what type of synthesis is possible with this-I guess it is software dependent in terms of programming the module itself. and it doesn't look available in the US, I don't think. It does look interesting. Open source-the way android was supposed to be, but Linux still is. This would be a powerful way to create entirely new sounds, independent of known sample-based or traditional oscillator-based sounds. Thanks, XW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslyutov Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Another aspect. Hardware synths in many cases provide higher standards as audio boards and serve as a high-quality audio output (USB audio). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokeyman123 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 SS I agree. There are "audiophile" computer plug-in hardware ic boards for desktops with the proper computer interface slots for playing sounds but no laptop I know of has anything near the quality of a dedicated keyboard system for playing sounds-most still use a dreadful old soundchip or the main CPU to render sounds for playing midi files. co And even if one uses some kind of external usb audio interface for computer DAW editing and recording, I don't know. I used a couple of usb audio interfaces-and usb is a very slow serial protocol, faster than the original midi protocol for data communications I think but since usb has to translate on top of its own drivers the midi protocols it is debatable as far as one over the other. and the midi serial protocol is very slow-that's why you cannot send audio through a midi port! I have never found even huge soundfonts that sound any better than the keyboards I've played. Many pro recording studios are using Protools to record audio (my brother is on 2 CDs created in a Protools studio here in South NJ) but as far as creating the keyboard sounds-mostly still dedicated synths, samplers and sound modules as well as miked acoustic drums and guitars. Some players with the money are going back to the originals-the Hammonds, Leslies, tine pianos, old analog stuff. A musician friend I know, tours with ancient equipment and he sounds pretty amazing! Of course he has Berkeley Music School chops and background. Computers seem to record audio well enough, which doesn't take much CPU power, but computer rendering, I wouldn't want to rely on a computer soundfont piano or other sounds in a live environment. I've used computers for DJ work to play music, but I'll still bring a dedicated keyboard to a gig. Drop my laptop, boom it's in pieces and there goes my instrument! I dropped an Ensoniq KS32 years ago on an asphalt parking lot after a gig and aside from a cracked end-cap, it worked for years after. It smashed my toe too-weighs around 40-50 pounds! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XW-Addict Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 I've seen my computer crash when using a daw the reason I wouldn't favor it for performances, although to others it seems to work fine. So If using a computer I would merely do so for creation as support what I've played from the keyboard and boy do i have few to many daw with library's. But still dropping a keyboard makes me hold my breath hoping it got a mere scratch. Dropped the PX5S ones got shaky and sweaty when inspecting it for any other damages due the fall 😥😣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.