Rhythm compatibility within the CT-X series

[vbdx66]

Hi to all,

 

I was wondering whether rhythms created on the CT-X3000/5000 could be read by the CT-X700/800. In particular, would the sound quality remain the same or would the voices need some sort of remapping before porting the rhythms to the smaller keyboards ? I am aware that the CT-X700/800 would only play two variations, of course.

 

This could be interesting for instance for a teacher wishing to share rhythms with his/her students, or for someone having both keyboard and wishing to take the more lighter one out for a gig.

 

Vinciane

[Brad Saucier]

AC7 is the file format for rhythms.  It's a common format and is compatible between many Casio models, not just the CT-X series.  Between the CT-X700/800 and 3000/5000 models, they should end up sounding very similar, if not identical in most cases, minus those extra features as you know.   The 3000/5000 does have more preset tones than the 700/800.  If those extra tones were used in a rhythm on a 3000/5000, they may not translate to a 700/800 exactly the same.  I'll need to study the appendix tone lists for both models to see exactly what is different.

[vbdx66]

Hi Brad and thanks for your answer.

 

I tried to upload rhythms for older keyboards in the CT-X3000 during the time I had it at home and, sure enough, the keyboard could understand them, but they sounded so ugly that I suspect they would need a complete remapping of voices in the mixer to be usable at all. I hope that the compatibility will be better within the CT-X series.

 

It could be pretty cool to have the CT-X5000 or 3000 at home while being able to upload personal rhythms to a CT-X800 or 700 to take away on vacation or for an informal gig.

[Chandler Holloway]

I am currently working on a long forum post detailing exactly how to prepare standard SMF files for conversion to .ckf rhythms for import into the CT-X series as well as older Casio boards that can use .ckf or .AC7. It will be supplementary reading for a longer video tutorial about how to use the CT-X3000/X5000 custom rhythm creator on the board itself. I'll make sure to let you know when I release that guide as well as the video as it should prove helpful for the issues you're having right now. 

[vbdx66]

Hi Chandler,

 

This looks really promising 😊

 

Would there be any way, then, to edit some .ckf rhythms in a DAW instead of editing them directly on the keyboard? This would be great since it would open new doors also to the owners of the CT-X700 and 800, which don’t have an onboard rhythm editor.

 

What would really be great would be to have a tutorial on how properly to do the mapping of voices in the .ckf rhythms for each keyboard model so as to use the much better panel voices instead of the relatively more mediocre GM voices.

 

It would be great, on top of the video, to have a PDF file describing the process as reference.

 

Thanks for all the work you’re putting into this,

 

Vinciane

 

 

[Chandler Holloway]

Vinciane:

 

Yes, the supplementary forum post I'm working on will detail the specifics of how to set up SMF files in your DAW to be converted into .ckf files for import into Casio keyboards as User Rhythms.

 

While the video tutorial will be focused on the X3000 and X5000 and its internal User Rhythm creator, the forum post will be aimed at X700 and X800 users who can only get custom rhythms by importing them from an outside source, like a traditional DAW.

 

I've also found that the GM voices that usually get called up when importing SMF files are less than ideal, so setting up voice assignments properly will definitely be a big part of the forum post. I will focus primarily on conversion using the X700/800s voice assignments, but if you apply the same "ground rules" regarding program change messages and CC commands to the appendix of whatever keyboard you're working with, you should be able to adapt the same concepts for your specific needs. I will make sure to include links to the appendices of all the boards we currently put out that can import .ckf files.

 

As for a separate .pdf, I could probably just copy the same info over into a new document and reformat for better readability, export it as a .pdf and attach it to the post as a .pdf if that would help you.

[vbdx66]

Hi Chandler,

 

Thanks for your very detailed explanation. This tutorial on how to create personal .ckf rhythm fils for all Casio keyboards able to read them will be a nice tool for Casio keyboard users. Having personalised rhythms/styles has been a wish of all arranger keyboards owners since these keyboards have been able to import external files.

 

Even for the CT-X3000/5000, I suspect it might be easier to create personalised styles on a computer than with the onboard rhythm creator. I guess that Casio rhythm programmers themselves are using a DAW or probably some sophisticated proprietary software to code the internal rhythms.

[Jokeyman123]

Chandler-Are you aware there is an extensive bunch of posts here about rhythm conversions for the WK, CTK and PX series from mid to CKF?  Here is the Casio rhythm converter:

 

https://music.casio.com/e/smf/

 

Many of us have already worked out how to do this, I'm sure the techniques end up being the same, since you will end up with a Casio .ckf.  Here is another group of posts:

Several Casio owners including me have realized the only way to create a unique rhythm from a midi file (before converting it successfully to a .ckf which can also be converted into an .ac7 simply by loading it into several of the newer Casios) is to use markers or cues in a software editor such as Cubase, Anvil Studio has been described and any other midi software sequencer that uses markers or cues to mark each point in the midi file which will now sequentially become your intro, main 1 and 2 rhythm, variations and endings. all this has nothing to do with your coming tutorial about using the Casio to create a new rhythm, but if you think it might help you compile your tutorial, take a look at these older posts and there are others. Unfortunately, as you will read from Mike Martin's post, there is no proprietary software designed by Casio to simplify creating a unique user rhythm, for any of the Casios, older or newer. I have managed to convert a few Yamaha .sty styles to .ckf, but it was so cumbersome, and sound mapping almost never was quite right. I am currently trying Anvil Studio to create some simple drum and bass lines with variations and cue points to see if this will work. I own the PX560, PX575 and PX350 all of which can play .ckf rhythm files and the 560 and 350 can play .ac7s also.

 

One thing no-one has made clear here on the forum-a step by step tutorial on how to create a midi file from scratch, create user selected parts, add the cue points for all the auto-arranger parts and convert this to a ckf. there is also a post somewhere about a Russian language based file convertor, but it is .xls format and needs Office 2007 or later to work! A little tricky especially if you are a MAC or ipad user.

[Chandler Holloway]

Yes, those threads and posts were very helpful for me in doing research for this .ckf conversion guide. I will definitely make sure to shout you guys out and refer back to the original thread in the finished post, but the idea here is to centralize all that information into one official guide for future reference.

 

Of course, because we're heavily promoting the CT-X series right now, I'm going to dedicate a fair amount of time to talking about stuff that's specific to importing .ckfs to the X700 and X800 models, like how to properly "reduce" a .ckf originally composed on a machine with several variations per rhythm to a .AC7 optimized for the X700, which only has a couple different variations in its rhythms (intro, standard, variation, fills 1 and 2, ending).

 

The voice assignments will also be discussed from the viewpoint of an X700/X800 user, and I'll be making reference to those particular boards' MIDI implementations throughout the guide. However, like I told Vinciane, I will make sure to include links to the appropriate appendices and MIDI charts of all the models we currently support so you can adapt these same concepts to older Casio boards as needed.

[methodman3000]

I have a question, What is the difference between Styles and Musical presets and 1 touch.  1 touch sets up styles doesn't it?  But what does musical preset do?  

[methodman3000]

Can Psr 436 rhythm   presets be converted into Casio CT x3000 .smf presets using the general midi?

[Harshal]

On 10/24/2018 at 3:40 AM, Chandler Holloway said:

Yes, those threads and posts were very helpful for me in doing research for this .ckf conversion guide. I will definitely make sure to shout you guys out and refer back to the original thread in the finished post, but the idea here is to centralize all that information into one official guide for future reference.

 

Of course, because we're heavily promoting the CT-X series right now, I'm going to dedicate a fair amount of time to talking about stuff that's specific to importing .ckfs to the X700 and X800 models, like how to properly "reduce" a .ckf originally composed on a machine with several variations per rhythm to a .AC7 optimized for the X700, which only has a couple different variations in its rhythms (intro, standard, variation, fills 1 and 2, ending).

 

The voice assignments will also be discussed from the viewpoint of an X700/X800 user, and I'll be making reference to those particular boards' MIDI implementations throughout the guide. However, like I told Vinciane, I will make sure to include links to the appropriate appendices and MIDI charts of all the models we currently support so you can adapt these same concepts to older Casio boards as needed.

From where can i get this tutorial???? I want to create custom rhythm for CTX 870IN

[Chandler Holloway]

@Harshal

 

It’s pinned over in the General Casio Discussion section.

 

[Harshal]

2 minutes ago, Chandler Holloway said:

@Harshal

 

It’s pinned over in the General Casio Discussion section.

 

Thank you so much