What is happening at Casio

[funkycornwall]

There seems to have been a major slow-down in Casio activity or am I mistaken. They released the great PX-5S as a pro performance keyboard quite a few years back but it has not been followed up yet. Do you think they have decided that there is too much competition in the pro-level field and they have given up on that one? The PX-560 was not a huge step up from the Privia PX-360 really.  I realise there has been the Grand Hybrid development so maybe this has taken the attention away from the other models in the range. A few years back Casio seemed to be making huge developments. They were revolutionary in making a really portable 88-note keyboard with a good action but so light-weight. Just some of the sounds were lacking and some of the features. Surely they have the know-how to make an instrument (preferable a PX-5S successor) that could blow away much of the competition and put Casio on the map. Am I mistaken in my disappointment in Casio development of late? I am hoping they will surprise us soon with some new models. Otherwise we will just have to rely on Nord, Yamaha and Roland. 

[Brad Saucier]

Casio has a wide range of products.  They release a line of new keyboards every year.  Nothing has really slowed down, it has just temporarily shifted away from digital pianos and high end gear.  They are currently focusing on product lines that are a very important part of Casio's business, portable models, those entry-level to intermediate level keyboards called the CT-X series.  These are rich sounding instruments and comparable in sound quality to keyboards costing hundreds if not thousands more.  If you want to hear the latest from Casio, have a look at those models.  The work being done with those will play a role in the development of future products.  There have been at least seven new CT-X series models released this year for various markets worldwide.  Personally, I'm excited to see what happens next year.  They always seem to have new tricks up their sleeves.  

[Ken Madell]

Absolutely, not to fear, Casio is shattering my expectations more than ever the past 2 years on those portable models that Brad mentioned, and that I use for teaching, composing, and even some solo performing.  These models are being picked over Yamaha by reviewers, mainly because the sound is so awesome.  I love them also because their operation is greatly streamlined, and you can do very quick, interactive editing, and all manner of tonal adjustments.  I'm excited to see what's next also.  

[sslyutov]

I agree that is a regular pace for Casio.

[mike71]

I think a lot of people are waiting the successor of the PX-5S and the PX-560.

Mrom a marketing point of view CT-X keyboards are easier to sell, even digital pianos like the Celviano are, because the potential owners of a "pro" stagepiano and synthesize are quite nip icky and the field is now a bit crowded. After the move of Yamaha with the MODX8  I suppose that the next Casio stage piano should have a phase distortion tone generator to be in par.

And it's easier for a shop to sell a digital piano for studying or a small keyboard rather than a complex syntheses with a powerful sound engine but a tiny little screen and a confusing documentation and without an expression pedal...

 

On a related note I'm going to this exhibition ob electronic musical instruments. https://www.soundmit.com/it/espositori/espositori-2018 As i can see someone is missing (ok actually also Crumar, Viscount, Dexibell, Korg and Nord are missing) but I think Casio Italy had missed an opportunity to make people aware of their products.

 

Edit. I visited the exhibition, ad was really geared to synthesizer, with some modular components, some old gear displayed like the CS-80 & DX-1 and there weren't digital pianos. I could understand why Casio wasn't present. Making people "aware" about the MZ-X series could have been a nice idea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

I hesitated to go for the CTX or MZX new models because Casio did not include the drawbars for contro on the CTXl-and the CTX only has the full 17-track sequencer I believe on the 3000 and 5000 series. Since they already had such a great design with the new CTK and WK drawbar models, why didn't they keep this function? I'd sell one of my older Casios if I could upgrade with at least the same features. And I have an XW, and loved the drawbar functionality, which I've had on my Equinox for over 10 years, so the technology has been there for a long time (thank you Generalmusic in Italy for setting the bar high a long time ago.)  but the CTK and WK models are holding their prices on the used market, so......stilll good for Casio business.

[Brad Saucier]

They kept the virtual tone wheel organ and improved it, moving it up in ranks to the MZ-X series, which returns it to where Casio first introduced the drawbar organ 18 years ago, the MZ-2000.  😉

[funkycornwall]

I take your points about the newer CT-X range. I guess I was just looking at the 88-note portable but fully weighted action keyboards. Are they going to produce a PX-5S successor? That was such a great keyboard and a huge leap forward for Casio. 

[Casiofun]

Casio as a company has not done well financially and lost money in 2017. In musical instruments, Casio is at its best with cheap low cost bang for the buck products and the CTX line is delivering just that. While the PX5 S broke new ground for Casio as a pro level instrument, the MZX line has failed and is being phased out and will not be replaced. Casio has never made expensive musical instruments and will not go toe to toe with Korg, Roland, and Yahama on price as they will not do well. Expect to see Casio bring out more  CTX  type keyboards in the near term before another pro style instrument is released.

[Joe Muscara]

7 hours ago, Casiofun said:

Casio as a company has not done well financially and lost money in 2017.

What is your source for this?

 

7 hours ago, Casiofun said:

the MZX line has failed and is being phased out and will not be replaced

What is your source for this?

[Casiofun]

9 hours ago, Joe Muscara said:

What is your source for this? an article about Casio posted by Scott Hamlin.

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Executive-Lounge/At-Casio-a-generational-split-opens-path-back-to-prominence

 

What is your source for this? Member TSon in the thread Casio MZX 300 Game Over

“Still available” (left over inventory), and “manufactuing” (still producing) are very different things. Is Casio still producing the MZ-X?  I’m very curious as well.

 

According to a Casio product manager I spoke with, Casio “dabbled” in the pro-sumer arranger market, (>$1,000), but has decided to stick with low-end intro. keyboards, which they are better known for.  The sales goals were not met and although the MZ-X became popular in some niche markets, it’s ultimately about profit margin.  Casio is interested in volume sales, and not competing directly with Yamaha, Roland and Korg. (Please don’t debate on this thread whether they “compete” with Y, R and K.  It’s a matter of perception in the industry and profits, period.)

 

According to the product manager, Casio will not be building any follow-up to the MZ-X500 (unfortunately).

 

In my opinion, and based on my conversation with the product manager, Casio has decided to stop production (or will soon) of the MZ-X to focus on the lower-end AiX chip keyboards.

 

If anyone has any other specific information as to Casio’s plans for the MZ-X, please share.

 

[Joe Muscara]

Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see where that article says they lost money in 2017. When you posted that, I found their annual report for that year and it didn't look like they had a loss to me.

 

As far as the MZ-X series, I can't argue what you speculate and is your opinion based on what you say a product manager told you. I haven't had those conversations and even if they were posted somewhere verbatim, we can each draw our own conclusions. I'm not saying they are doing great. I simply do not know.

 

What I do think is a mischaracterization, however, is your statement, "lower-end AiX chip keyboards." That makes it sound like the AiX chip is low end, and it is not. 

 

Finally, if I want to debate on this thread whether Casio "competes" with Y, R, K, or any other keyboard manufacturer, I can.  

[XW-Addict]

21 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

If I find out that anyone decided NOT to buy a Casio because of threads like this one, I am NOT going to be happy.  This is doing nothing to help anyone.

Simmer down Brad 😆 it's all just hot air balloon chatter, comment on yt video shown the CTX giving the benefit of doubts and more in favor to other keyboards in its price range. 

 

Surely the demand changes we've all had our few cents about it. Shows that it is changing and in a process of adaption that takes a while. I don't know how to explain this market phenomenon but it's happening.

 

For Casio it had to start with the XW,PX5S and other privia lines onwards with MZX and CTX. One needs only to make a pick what you're sound is and make it you're own. 

[Jokeyman123]

I specifically removed a post recently for this very reason, deferring to Brad's greater knowledge specific to the post. Having many Casios in my collection speaks for itself. and i have played keys from all the majors. As a pro musician, I have always regretted seeing other music companies that failed (Ensoniq, Generalmusic for example) which despite brilliant designs and sounds could not make it in the marketplace. Despite this, we as pro performance/educators or "amateurs" have never had such an incredible choice of instruments to create with. As a percentage of our gross income, the instruments available now are far superior money/feature-wise than choices even 5-10 years ago. remember what a Mellotron cost-most musicians could only dream about them? How about the first Kurzweils?  Same.  I favor this user group because it generally does not descend to petty bickering about useless comparisons, although there are useful ones of course-instead it focuses on (IMO) maximizing on what I can do with what is under my hands, fingers and nose with what I have (I don't generally play with my nose though, given a decent amount of money maybe..... And there is always and abundance of info when I need it from people who really know their stuff. and if I need info about non-Casio products-there are user groups for everything and everybody. I am always pleasantly surprised when I see a helpful moderator from another famous user group pitch in here-names will remain anonymous! and other way around-those who have left a positive mark here doing the same on other "branded" user groups. Keep in mind in case you don't know, Mr. Mike Martin has a rather illustrious background with several other majors, ( I think I don't speak professionally here) in no small part has had a hand in some of the more recent advanced Casio developments-I certainly see the trail markers!  And this has been a great benefit to all here in playing and even developing the Casios.

 

I also have a close friend who may shortly be selected to be the head US market rep for Roland (ooooooooooo!!!) who knows Mike Martin from his previous experience in the music industry-if the hot air ballon goes down, it can bring down more than one. Then we all lose. Off the soapbox now. Just saying....

 

[Casiofun]

For the record, i made no mention of the AIX chip being low end. That came from the thread of the member that posted what a marketing manager had told him. As far as the article, it mentions they have had struggles and challenges much like every other company and that they are focusing on holding down costs to help boost profits. It does seem to suggest further they are focusing on their core market products more so than developing higher priced products that might not take them where they want to go profit wise.

[CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler]

Even if Casio does not focus on professional instruments anymore, please at least add something like a couple of sysex parameters to let interested people tweak internal registers of the sound synthesis engine through midi (like it was done in Casio CZ-230S). Things like CTK-1000 or even first SA-series had exciting sound that would deserve to be made fully editable and saveable to external memory.

Even if this does not rapidly boost sale to add some cheap sysex (without user interface), it will for sure increase curiosity of pro musicians into Casio instruments and finally raise its reputation among them.

[central616]

I think this is a fair observation. With the PX5s CASIO moved sucesfully to the pro market, but with the MZ-X I think they did the wrong movement. It's a good board, you can do almost everything yo want with it, but it doesn't outshine any keyboard in the market in the same price range

[skyy38]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:07 AM, Joe Muscara said:

Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see where that article says they lost money in 2017. When you posted that, I found their annual report for that year and it didn't look like they had a loss to me.

 

As far as the MZ-X series, I can't argue what you speculate and is your opinion based on what you say a product manager told you. I haven't had those conversations and even if they were posted somewhere verbatim, we can each draw our own conclusions. I'm not saying they are doing great. I simply do not know.

 

What I do think is a mischaracterization, however, is your statement, "lower-end AiX chip keyboards." That makes it sound like the AiX chip is low end, and it is not. 

 

Finally, if I want to debate on this thread whether Casio "competes" with Y, R, K, or any other keyboard manufacturer, I can.  

 

CASIO is more than competing with "Y, R, K" in terms of product quality, specifically in the last 18 years, and, even BEFORE that.

 

WHO says that a "Pro Instrument" has to run in the thousands of dollars? True, "You get what you pay for" but CASIO to me has always been alone as far as "Performance to Price Ratio" is concerned. Even when "Y, R, K" has tried to match CASIO on IT'S terms, they wind up a little short, because CASIO STILL does it better than them, on general terms, especially pricing.

 

AND with the intro of a first generation sound source on a so-called "consumer instrument" instead of it trickling down from the "higher end models" FIRST, CASIO, to my ever enduring delight, continues to trail blaze while the others "sidewalks" have started to show cracks.

[skyy38]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:12 PM, CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler said:

Even if Casio does not focus on professional instruments anymore, please at least add something like a couple of sysex parameters to let interested people tweak internal registers of the sound synthesis engine through midi (like it was done in Casio CZ-230S). Things like CTK-1000 or even first SA-series had exciting sound that would deserve to be made fully editable and saveable to external memory.

Even if this does not rapidly boost sale to add some cheap sysex (without user interface), it will for sure increase curiosity of pro musicians into Casio instruments and finally raise its reputation among them.

Oh, CASIOS reputation among "Pros" is legendary as a lot of them managed to use CASIO instruments on chart topping hits!

I forget, if it's Mr. Saucier or someone, who first turned me on to this, but a CASIO was used in this song, circa 1987:
 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by skyy38

[skyy38]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 5:21 AM, Brad Saucier said:

If I find out that anyone decided NOT to buy a Casio because of threads like this one, I am NOT going to be happy.  This is doing nothing to help anyone.

 

Several years back, not only Mike Martin but Craig Anderton were just about gob smacked  ( translation "Whoa DUDE!" ) when I posted this little thing done ENTIRELY on a CASIO:

 

 

 

[skyy38]

1 minute ago, skyy38 said:

 

Several years back, not only Mike Martin but Craig Anderton were just about gob smacked  ( translation "Whoa DUDE!" ) when I posted this little thing done ENTIRELY on a CASIO:

 

 

 

And, not to "gild the lily" or anything like that, but this was ALSO done on the SAME CASIO Keyboard as the previous example!
 

 

[skyy38]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:07 AM, Joe Muscara said:

Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see where that article says they lost money in 2017. When you posted that, I found their annual report for that year and it didn't look like they had a loss to me.

 

As far as the MZ-X series, I can't argue what you speculate and is your opinion based on what you say a product manager told you. I haven't had those conversations and even if they were posted somewhere verbatim, we can each draw our own conclusions. I'm not saying they are doing great. I simply do not know.

 

What I do think is a mischaracterization, however, is your statement, "lower-end AiX chip keyboards." That makes it sound like the AiX chip is low end, and it is not. 

 

Finally, if I want to debate on this thread whether Casio "competes" with Y, R, K, or any other keyboard manufacturer, I can.  

The ONLY thing wrong with the MZ-X series was that it was released to market as a "half finished" product.

It STILL doesn't discount the SOUND advances that CASIO had made, up to the point of the MZ-X Series release.

Anyone remember the ALESIS FUSION debacle from 2005?

And also, remember THIS classic line...

"We will sell no wine, before it's time...…."

Any "airplane" taking off from the strip, that is only "half finished" will surely  *crash*………..
 

[Jokeyman123]

Check my post about the acoustic piano sound comparisons put up by Sweetwater-listen for yourself, then think about it....

[petersohn]

Casio in the 90s presented keys at a similar level as Yamaha. Yamaha developed strongly and went ahead - Casio was left behind. Now he is trying to chase the competition, but unfortunately it is not so easy. The Aix series sounds very good, it has been professionally introduced to the market, there are many great presentations. Let's hope that based on this sound engine will also be created many new models from the higher shelf.

On the market of the educational model is growing competition, in addition to Yamaha and Roland recently entered the market also Korg with his model Ek-50. There are also many new companies that are chasing Casio - Medeli, Ringway, Dexibell. Casio should fight for a budget ledge from the Yamaha S775, Korg pa 700 and Roland Ea-7. A successor of the MZ-X series must be created with refined styles, good sounds, new percussion sets, a full-value sampler, great service and a good look like the mz-x500. Casio also has to look after customers who have bought their keys. Yamaha and Korg offer a rich collection of styles for their clients. Observing the forum, I come to the conclusion that the company's policy boils down to the conclusion: you have Style Creator and videos on Youtube - you will do it yourself. Is not it better to learn from the best, does Casio want to tie customers to your brand?

And what about the customers of the Mz-x series. A few months ago Brad Saucier wrote that an update with the Aix series would be released. Is something known about it? Is MZ-X already intended for withdrawal?

Recently I thought about buying a new key for my collection, I was thinking about the new Ct-x 5000 but looking at the display and user interface I decided to stay with the MZ-X series. At the moment I preferred to buy a used Ketron SD5 keyboard. When it comes to acoustic sounds, percussive sounds and styles for playing, the MZ -x series sounds like a toy at Ketron. I am waiting for the successor of the Mz series, if I do not leave, I will say goodbye to this brand.

[Brad Saucier]

27 minutes ago, petersohn said:

A few months ago Brad Saucier wrote that an update with the Aix series would be released.

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to.