Grand piano/Mellow piano

[Gr3yWolf]

Hi Jokeyman123

 

I dont have my own acoustic piano, though i have played them. I have had several keyboards and digital pianos, both with and without weighted key actions. I actually have a Yamaha p515 which has a quite heavy action and i can play that no problem. You're probably thinking why get this if i have a p515, simple answer; portability, the p515 is too heavy to keep moving around as it is twice the weight of the PX s3000.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

 

 

Also i have just played the Demo song as requested by Brad Saucier

 

I dont hear anything wrong with the piano in the demo, it sounds much more alive than the sound i get when i am playing.

[Brad Saucier]

Does it sound better to you when touch response is turned off?

[Gr3yWolf]

Hi Brad Saucier

 

I wouldn't say it sounds better, it sounds louder and maybe a little less dull i suppose. I just want it to sound like what im hearing in the Youtube videos, its a really nice rounded sound with just the right amount of sparkle without being too bright/harsh sounding. Mine just sounds very dull, far too mellow, lacking any sparkle.

 

What would be your suggestion - return it for a replacement or keep trying different things? To me if it doesnt sound like the ones in the videos out of the box then wouldnt that suggest something is off?

 

Also i was carefully listening to each note earlier and im sure i hear a large discrepancy in 2 notes; D#5 and E5, i altered the sound somewhat to make it easier to hear, i have included a recording playing other notes around it for comparison, is this normal? I have only noticed this on the default piano sound.

 

So far the only piano sound i like is one i have somewhat created myself from the Stage Piano preset in which i altered the 3bandEQ DSP settings and added a lot of reverb, i call it super ambient piano, ive included a sample of that.

 

Thanks

ODD NOTES D#5-E5.WAV SuperAmbientPiano.WAV

[Jokeyman123]

The odd notes .wav-I can tell you is that yes, I hear the unnatural prominence of 2 notes-but more disturbingly to me is this-I am hearing no stereo imaging in this recording, so I can't really hear what this piano is supposed to sound like-it sounds like the stereo sound images have been compressed into a monophonic sound-and are causing out-of-phase cancellations-and a pretty nasty tone quality-and may also be responsible for certain notes "peaking" I hear no such notes in any of my digital pianos, Casio and others. 

 

 This is what the GM piano tones in my Privias sound like, and are nowhere near the quality of the non GM, since the GM pianos are not created in stereo-in order to hear the soundfield following from the low to the high octaves-which works really well with headphones, not as pronounced through the built-in speakers, but again through my sound system there is a definite stereo image going from left to right low to high octaves-with no phase cancellations, but not with the GM pianos.

 

The first acoustic piano tones that make up  tone banks for the PX560 and PX350 are all like this, but if i select the GM acoustic pianos, these sound like your odd notes recording. and I have to agree, although I can't qualify the PXS series-a few of the acoustic pianos, even the stereo imaged sampled pianos sound a little muffled to my ears, and this is only due to the DSP effect that is (probably) modifying the eq curves for those pianos. The raw samples are crystal clear-I have several modified acoustic piano tones uploaded here-unfortunately will only work for the PX560-but I was able to modify the DSP and dynamic range of the acoustic piano, giving it a more brilliant and expanded sound. I recall using the "early reflections" or "enhancer" which seemed to give the acoustic pianos a fuller, more brilliant sound.

 

Steinways-without a huge soundfield-that is listening close-field to it while playing-these actually do sound fairly "dull" I recall-you have a felt hammer hitting a string. I think it has been due to advances in recording, what I'm used to hearing that can give the impression that an acoustic piano can have a brilliant sound, when in reality it has probably been pretty "doctored up" to cut through a mixed soundfield with other instruments. One characteristic sound i think of is Roy Bittan, the "professor" in the E-street band-so often his piano parts are note for note duplicated with a "celeste" or "glockenspiel" sound-to cut through everything else. and the popularity back when, of the Yamaha CP piano (which we have sampled in our Casios) which although a more "brittle" and thin sounding  piano-cut through guitars and drums, unlike the Fender Rhodes and Wurlitzer tine pianos of the time. Alot more painful than our Casios when dropped on your foot too!!!!

[Gr3yWolf]

Hi Jokeyman123

 

Hadnt noticed there being no stereo... The odd notes are from the first piano sample (Concert 01), and the only thing i have done is applied a 3bandstereoEQ as i was trying to make it sound more like i was hearing on youtube instead of sounding dull and somewhat muffled. To be sure it wasnt actually me causing these odd notes i disabled the DSP and set it back to normal and listened closely again to those 2 notes, and sure enough they are still there, but a bit less noticable because the muffled/dull sound was masking it.

 

Do you think that could be the issue i am having then... that for whatever reason the sample on my piano is playing in mono instead of stereo? If so, would this be considered a fault, and again if so - would that warrant me going to the hassle of returning it for a replacement?

 

Speaking of GM tones, i actually find that the first GM piano on here to sound better than the actual sample - but then if there is a fault with the sound then maybe that is why...?

 

I have observed that when companies record samples they tend to record with the mic/s over the actual body where the strings are, but to me i would have thought it more logical to record from the position of where a person actually sits as that would better capture what a person playing actually hears.... but i digress.

 

Thanks for the reply

[Brad Saucier]

I went back and listened to your first audio clip using my headphones.  It sounds normal to me.  You're playing softly and it sounds soft.  It's also in stereo, unlike your "odd note" audio clip.  I think you added a mono EQ effect to the tone instead of a stereo EQ effect.  It sounds like everything is working normally on your PX-S3000.  Whenever you play softly, it sounds soft, and whenever you play louder, it sounds louder and brighter, as it should.  

[Jokeyman123]

Brad sounds like he has it, as far as the odd note sample. I can state that when monitoring both your wav files in Audacity-both have been recorded at a very low volume level judging by the peak shapes/amplitude of the wav in Audacity. but this is probably due to your recording levels, not the PX. I stand by my original observation-the odd note sample sounds peculiar because the original stereo soundfield has been compressed into one monophonic tone, and there is phase cancellation which is usually not a good thing, it can cause unusual peaks and dips in the perceived sound, from note to note. almost as if it is a mild phasing effect, but in a more random and not so pleasant way. try another DSP, or none and upload another sample of this. As Brad said, I hear nothing unusual from your other example-except that it has been recorded at a very low dynamic level. When recording-I usually try to get the levels as close to .5 or a bit higher to get the hottest signal. and here you can see-it is a stereo soundwave-so the DSP must be the cause of this phase cancellation effect. 

[Brad Saucier]

As far as I know, the audio files were directly recorded on the PX-S3000 to USB flash drive.  A relatively low level is normal when recording a piano sound alone.  

[Jokeyman123]

This can be compensated for-one of the benefits of these audio editors. Brad-a quick question pertinent to this post but also my PX560-when using the PX-S3000, and/or my PX560 audio recorder direct to the thumb drive-can this volume level be changed pre-recording?  The "balance" menu re the PX560 shows settings for audio volume, midi volume plus the other options for upper 1, lower 1 keyboard etc. all adjustable. Will any of these levels effect the audio recording levels internally in any way-and can Gry3wolf do anything with the PX-S3000 to alter these levels-make the wav "hotter"? I know this is off-topic but maybe not so much. I haven't experimented around enough to answer my own question, as I never noticed these audio recordings being particularly "soft" as recorded directly to the thumb drive with the PX560, and as I'm seeing here with GryWolf's recordings, maybe I just wasn't paying attention!

[kybdsammer]

When I've recorded audio files to flash drive on the PX-S3000, I know the master volume does not seem to affect the recording level. The recordings are usually on the quieter side but as Jokeyman mentioned, post processing with audio software is easy to normalize. I am also interested to know if level can be adjusted when recording. I could be wrong but I think the lower recording level is to allow for multi-instrument recording without distorting or recording too hot.

[Brad Saucier]

All of the internal levels will reflect in the recorded volume (mixer levels, balance menus, dsp effect levels, master effects levels, tone amp levels, etc.)  Only the volume knob does not change the recorded level.  All of these things can be boosted to a point that a recording will indeed clip.  This is partly why Casio leaves so much headroom in the system.  

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks Brad-so all these go to the audio recorder, very good-like using a master mixing desk to set up everything before going to the main recording bus-excellent!  I have not had any trouble probably as I keep most of the settings for mixer, etc. to around 70-100 or a bit higher, to give me some flexibility should a given track need more prominence in the mix. Andthe mastereqsettings in the PX560 are a big help as well. Gry3Wolf, I would watch those master eq settings in the PX-S3000 which I do not have, I recall studying the manual there is a master eq setting. 

[Gr3yWolf]

I have just checked and the odd notes were because of a monaural DSP setting, the setting i was actually using was ToneControl which after looking at the manual is a mono eq... so yeh seems on this occasion i made a boo boo, my bad.

 

Not sure about me just playing to soft, the Youtube clips ive heard of people playing softly with the default tone is much better than what im getting on my unit, and the first piano sound is so soft/dull that to me it sounds indistinguishable from the mellow piano which is supposed to be soft, its as if i have 2 mellow pianos and a bright piano (just speaking of tones 01-03), surely the first should sound in between the bright and mellow - which is what i am hearing on the videos. I know its been said that it sounds normal, but to my ears using the same headphones for both the Youtube vids and my unit i am hearing very different tonal characteristics.

 

The loud hiss through both headphone sockets isnt getting any better. I plug the headphones in with the unit off and get complete silence (apart from a crackle when i insert the jack), then when powering on the hiss instantly kicks in, i am also hearing some very subtle electronic sounds, like whining. I thought maybe it was just the headphones i was using, so tried them in my smartphone with gave complete silence.

 

I am away from the PS-X atm, so i will try to see if there is a master EQ setting, but im sure ive been through most of the menus etc and i havnt seen a Master EQ, but i will check the manual when i can. And yes all Wav files have been recorded direct to usb from the unit. Would help if there was a setting for altering the recording volume, if there is one i haven't seen it.

 

Thanks a lot guys for the continued support i really do appreciate it.  Also i apologize if it seems like i am making any sort of fuss, but im not just happy with the sound atm, its nothing like the videos and i cannot figure out why - even straight out of the box something didnt sound right to me. I just want it to sound like all the videos i have heard and it just doesnt, the most i here it the more disappointed i feel...

[Gr3yWolf]

Forgot to ask also... what firmware are you guys with the PS-X3000 running? Under 'Version' my says 0103, is that the latest? I guess i am clutching at straws thinking maybe a firmware update may fix it...

[kybdsammer]

Mine is version 0102 here in California.  Interesting you have version 0103.  For comparison, I've attached a wav file recorded from the default 001 GrPnoConcert tone (no changes at all) and recorded to flash drive.  The first one is raw with no changes.  The second is the same file but just normalized  via Audacity software.

GrPnoConcert Default.wav GrPnoConcert Default normalized.wav

[Gr3yWolf]

Hi kybdsammer

 

Maybe mine is latest firmware then...?

 

I listened to both your recordings and i have to say that this sounds so much better than im hearing when i play mine, thats the piano sound i want, but mine sounds muddy and dull by comparison.

 

Oh and btw... i recognize the tune. I can only imagine... Well played.

[kybdsammer]

Glad you recognized it.  One of my favorites.  And yes, I'll have to check into the firmware.

[Gr3yWolf]

One of my favorites too. Let me know what you find out. Thanks

[kybdsammer]

On 5/22/2020 at 4:20 PM, Gr3yWolf said:

I have just checked and the odd notes were because of a monaural DSP setting, the setting i was actually using was ToneControl which after looking at the manual is a mono eq... so yeh seems on this occasion i made a boo boo, my bad.

 

Not sure about me just playing to soft, the Youtube clips ive heard of people playing softly with the default tone is much better than what im getting on my unit, and the first piano sound is so soft/dull that to me it sounds indistinguishable from the mellow piano which is supposed to be soft, its as if i have 2 mellow pianos and a bright piano (just speaking of tones 01-03), surely the first should sound in between the bright and mellow - which is what i am hearing on the videos. I know its been said that it sounds normal, but to my ears using the same headphones for both the Youtube vids and my unit i am hearing very different tonal characteristics.

 

The loud hiss through both headphone sockets isnt getting any better. I plug the headphones in with the unit off and get complete silence (apart from a crackle when i insert the jack), then when powering on the hiss instantly kicks in, i am also hearing some very subtle electronic sounds, like whining. I thought maybe it was just the headphones i was using, so tried them in my smartphone with gave complete silence.

 

I am away from the PS-X atm, so i will try to see if there is a master EQ setting, but im sure ive been through most of the menus etc and i havnt seen a Master EQ, but i will check the manual when i can. And yes all Wav files have been recorded direct to usb from the unit. Would help if there was a setting for altering the recording volume, if there is one i haven't seen it.

 

Thanks a lot guys for the continued support i really do appreciate it.  Also i apologize if it seems like i am making any sort of fuss, but im not just happy with the sound atm, its nothing like the videos and i cannot figure out why - even straight out of the box something didnt sound right to me. I just want it to sound like all the videos i have heard and it just doesnt, the most i here it the more disappointed i feel...

 

Any luck getting rid of the loud hiss?  After reading some recent posts from Chandler Holloway and others, it seems you may be getting interference from some cabling (USB or power strip?).  

 

I plan to post a separate thread to ask about the firmware difference (if there isn't one already).

[Gr3yWolf]

Hey kybdsammer

 

No, no luck im afraid. I even got some batteries to test it with those... the sound is the same, still dull sounding, and the hiss is still there just as much as with the mains connection and with the same electronic sort of whining sound. I can still play with the hiss, but i would be lying if i said i didn't find it at least a little distracting. Im one of those sort of people that once i have heard or seen something then i cant help keep looking/ listening for it, and with this i dont need to listen that hard as its always there.

 

Ive been going through various menus and settings to see what if anything i can do with regards to both the piano sound and the hiss, but i haven't come across anything that fixes it. Someone (cant remember who sorry, im too lazy to check ) suggested that i look into the master eq option, but unfortunately i dont see any such setting/menu, only DSP effect EQs.

 

Im at a loss at this point, i dont know what else to possibly try and i really didnt want to go down the exchange route if i can avoid it, its a lot of hassle especially with things being the way they are at the moment.

 

Anyway thanks for the info about possibly getting interference and the heads up about possibly starting a new thread asking about firmware differences - when you have set it up, could you post a link to the thread...

 

Thanks

[Brad Saucier]

If it's stripped down to just batteries, nothing else connected to the keyboard, has been factory reset, and you hear noticable noise while in a normal seated position when you play, I would say it's definitely not normal.  In that case, I would look into having it exchanged for another one.  

[Gr3yWolf]

Hey Brad

 

Yep looks like that's the only option at the moment, i was hoping to not have to go to the hassle of returning it, but seems i have little choice unfortunately. But before i do that, are you aware of any issues with version 0103 of the firmware and/or would it be possible to change firmware somehow to a lower version (say 0102) if the is no updated version? Or is it unlikely that the firmware would cause such an issue?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Chandler Holloway]

Firmware wouldn’t have any effect on the PX-S3000’s DAC, which is likely the cause of your noise issue if you have troubleshooted everything else. If it’s not the DAC then it may be some mechanical issue with the jack sockets, which again, would be totally unrelated to firmware.

 

This is a good opportunity to register your Privia online; this will extend the warranty from one year to three years in case anything else goes wrong. I’ve never heard of anyone having such an issue with their PX-S that wasn’t solved by swapping out their power supply or addressing the USB ground loop problem, let’s hope that your model’s just a fluke.

[Gr3yWolf]

Hi Chandler

 

I thought as much, but thought i would ask anyway just to get confirmation. Yes i too hope that it is just a fluke, cause i dont want to run into any issues with the replacement, although i dont think that its likely, hopefully lightning wont strike twice.

 

Good idea about the registration, thank for the tip.

 

What is your opinion on the main Piano sample sounding dull when compared with those i have heard on Youtube and even the sample uploaded by kybdsammer  - could that be firmware related (i am running version 0103, kybdsammer said his is 0102) or could that be just an issue with my unit?

 

Thanks

[fcw3]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:37 PM, Gr3yWolf said:

I would just like to pitch in and say that you are not the only one with this issue...

 

I just got the PX S3000 as well (today), and i have to say that i am in complete agreement with you on this. On mine also, the first Grand Piano sound sounds identical to mellow piano even after going back and forth between the 2 playing the exact same notes, and i too find that the first Grand Piano sound (and mellow piano too) sounds very dull and not very clear at all almost sounding somewhat muffled as if listening to it through a solid wall or from another room. For this reason it is unusable for me. I dont understand why it sounds like this as before purchasing it i watched many youtube videos and reviews and found myself impressed with the piano sound and was the reason i bought it. This issue is present both with the inbuilt speakers and headphones.

 

I hope this is a fault, because if not then i am very disappointed in the sound of the piano. Also dont know if you have this on yours but on mine there is a constant loud hiss through both headphone sockets even at lowest volume.

 

At the moment i am seriously considering returning it and getting a refund as i am that disappointed, mine sounds nothing like the numerous videos of this instrument.

Dear grey wolf what was the resolution of your issue? I just got a new 3000 and having same problem- grand piano sounds dull and muted. A new one is being sent to me hope it sounds better.