Debating one of two Casio options; input desired

[nethfel]

Hi all,

 

First, this might be in the wrong topic and if it is I apologize - the only other one I saw that it might fit in didn't seem to have a lot of traffic in it.

 

I'm looking at getting a secondary DP; something not terribly heavy to make it easy to move/take with me.  Right now I've limited it down to Casio and one other brand.  Now, I'm not gigging, and I'd prefer to have internal speakers.  So to that end, in the Casio line I've limited it to the PX-560 or the new PX-S3000.  Unfortunately, no where near me has both these models (actually the place I thought that would only had the PX-S1000 on display to try - which would be ok as the touch/speaker sound /etc should be pretty much the same as the 3000, but no 560).

 

Both are around 25 lbs - which is perfect.

 

Here are the pros as I can tell right now:

PX-S3000

 - newer sound chip - potentially higher quality instrument sound

 - keys less bouncy (assuming that the PX-560 uses the same key configuration as I remember on the CGP700 where it felt like the keys bounced on return)

 - newer (and longer) samples for the piano

 - Ability to configure using a larger device through Chordana Play

 - quieter keybed

 - ability to run on batteries

 - triple pedal doesn't require the furniture style bench.

 - sleek very clean design

 

PX-560

 - Slightly easier to control the keys closer to the keybed

 - larger on device control interface means one wouldn't have to use a separate device to manipulate it

 - Ability to load tones created by other people (not sure if the px-3000 can do something similar, but afaik it doesn't have that level of editing)

 - classic midi interface would allow me to use my midi->bluetooth adapter (I don't think the 3000 does midi over bluetooth, I thought that was just to stream music to the speakers)

 - MUCH easier access to the USB A port for use with a thumb drive

 

Things I really don't know -

To anyone who has used both, which one has better onboard speakers?  I think they are both about the same wattage, but between the changed case and possibly different speakers themselves, I am not sure which has a cleaner sound to it.

Are there any features  of either the PX-560 (although may still be the flagship of this line is probably somewhat close to EOL) or the 3000 I need to considre that might push me more solidly into one camp or the other?

Does the Chordana Play app work well?  

Does anyone know if there might be firmware updates for the 3000? I had seen some people talking about firmware versions, but it seems to be just what theirs came with instead of being able to update it which could make purchasing a bit hit or miss - might get an older firmware version or newer one when ordering.

 

I'm leaning a bit more toward the 3000, but as there is only about a $300 difference between the two I just want to be sure that I'm not missing something important.  

[Joe Muscara]

Actually, the PX-S1000 would have the same action and speaker system as the PX-S3000. The PX-560 has the same action as the PX-160, PX-360, CGP-700, and even the PX-860. I've rarely seen the PX-560 or PX-560 in any retail store, unfortunately. The speaker system of the PX-160, PX-360, and PX-560 are the same, but the CGP-700 has that speaker system in the keyboard body with an additional set of speakers in the stand. However, you can test the internal speakers only by going into the system settings and changing which speakers are on and off.

 

The speaker systems of the two models are slightly different, but not significantly so. I would go so far as to say that without having them side by side, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference despite the smaller design of the PX-S3000. On its own, it sounds really good. The PX-560 is considered as a "Pro" model and so has some features few other Casio models have including standard MIDI In/Out (5-pin MIDI) and 1/4" output jacks as well as 1/4" inputs. The PX-S3000 (and PX-S1000) do have 1/4" outputs as well. OTOH, the PX-S3000 does have an expression pedal input. While the PX-560 does have hex layer sounds, the PX-S3000 has excellent piano tones and programmability, and the Smart Scaled Hammer Action models each key, technology inherited from the Grand Hybrid pianos. In total it has 700 tones, and they all sound amazing. The PX-560 has great tones built in as well (I can't find the exact number at the moment but I know it's over 500), but this newer generation of tones in the latest Casio models are definitely a step above. And, you can use Bluetooth to play audio from a device through the PX-S3000 (and PX-S1000) to play along with or simply use your keyboard as a great sounding Bluetooth speaker.

 

Also, the Chordana Play for Piano app is great, and gives you easy access to all the features of the keyboard.

 

If you go back to that store and try the PX-S1000, you'll know if the action, speakers, and piano tone makes you happy. I bet it will.  

[Brad Saucier]

17 hours ago, nethfel said:

Ability to load tones created by other people (not sure if the px-3000 can do something similar, but afaik it doesn't have that level of editing)

 - classic midi interface would allow me to use my midi->bluetooth adapter (I don't think the 3000 does midi over bluetooth, I thought that was just to stream music to the speakers)

 

 PX-S3000 can save changes made to tones (by the knobs) and edited DSP insert effects as registrations, so it does have the ability to store user tones in a sense.  See the first video in this post.

 

17 hours ago, nethfel said:

Does anyone know if there might be firmware updates for the 3000? I had seen some people talking about firmware versions, but it seems to be just what theirs came with instead of being able to update it which could make purchasing a bit hit or miss - might get an older firmware version or newer one when ordering.

 

See this post.  

 

[nethfel]

On 7/26/2020 at 7:56 AM, Joe Muscara said:

Actually, the PX-S1000 would have the same action and speaker system as the PX-S3000. The PX-560 has the same action as the PX-160, PX-360, CGP-700, and even the PX-860. I've rarely seen the PX-560 or PX-560 in any retail store, unfortunately. The speaker system of the PX-160, PX-360, and PX-560 are the same, but the CGP-700 has that speaker system in the keyboard body with an additional set of speakers in the stand. However, you can test the internal speakers only by going into the system settings and changing which speakers are on and off.

 

The speaker systems of the two models are slightly different, but not significantly so. I would go so far as to say that without having them side by side, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference despite the smaller design of the PX-S3000. On its own, it sounds really good. The PX-560 is considered as a "Pro" model and so has some features few other Casio models have including standard MIDI In/Out (5-pin MIDI) and 1/4" output jacks as well as 1/4" inputs. The PX-S3000 (and PX-S1000) do have 1/4" outputs as well. OTOH, the PX-S3000 does have an expression pedal input. While the PX-560 does have hex layer sounds, the PX-S3000 has excellent piano tones and programmability, and the Smart Scaled Hammer Action models each key, technology inherited from the Grand Hybrid pianos. In total it has 700 tones, and they all sound amazing. The PX-560 has great tones built in as well (I can't find the exact number at the moment but I know it's over 500), but this newer generation of tones in the latest Casio models are definitely a step above. And, you can use Bluetooth to play audio from a device through the PX-S3000 (and PX-S1000) to play along with or simply use your keyboard as a great sounding Bluetooth speaker.

 

Also, the Chordana Play for Piano app is great, and gives you easy access to all the features of the keyboard.

 

If you go back to that store and try the PX-S1000, you'll know if the action, speakers, and piano tone makes you happy. I bet it will.  

 

I did get to try the PX-S1000 (I mentioned in the original post about the same key action/speakers.  Its speakers were aimed at the wall so decent sound reflection - no sure how it would sound away from the wall.  The tone itself was quite pleasing - so that part was good :D.  The action is pretty decent, it's something I'll have to really think about as it was a bit lighter than I had expected compared to my regular practice unit.  I'll have to really think if it's too far off or "good enough" for what I want to use it for.  I couldn't quite tell on how easy/hard it was to be expressive with it and get really quiet/soft sounds (unfortunately, the store had it mounted at the highest mount point and no loose power adapters where it could be moved away from the mount bracket so it was a bit of a challenge to play lol).

 

 

On 7/26/2020 at 9:39 AM, Brad Saucier said:

 

 PX-S3000 can save changes made to tones (by the knobs) and edited DSP insert effects as registrations, so it does have the ability to store user tones in a sense.  See the first video in this post.

 

 

See this post.  

 

Interesting, so not quite as much edit power as the 560, but still a lot of flexibility.  A bit weird on the firmware - I'm not used to seeing firmware revisions changing when in house tools change but rather when a change (bug fix, new feature, etc.) has been applied to the firmware itself.

[AndrewL]

A few comments:

 

On 7/25/2020 at 6:07 PM, nethfel said:

 - Ability to load tones created by other people (not sure if the px-3000 can do something similar, but afaik it doesn't have that level of editing)

 

You are actually loading edits to existing tones (effects, settings, etc.), no actual waveforms/samples. Still, you can get pretty different and cool new tones that way.

 

On 7/26/2020 at 9:56 AM, Joe Muscara said:

the PX-S3000 does have an expression pedal input

 

The PX-560 has great tones built in as well (I can't find the exact number at the moment but I know it's over 500)

 

The PX-560 also has an expression pedal input, and it has 650 tones (550 + 100 hex layers), plus all the ones you can create or download.

 

I think still a lot of key differences between the keyboard were not mentioned, like the modulation wheel and three knobs, the ability to edit a lot of stuff for each tone, plus all the versatility hex-layers give you (it was mentioned, but I'm not sure if it's clear what they mean: they were one of the reasons I went for the PX-560), a 17-track midi recorder, ease to select tones, layers and splitting, etc.

 

In the end, it depends on what you expect from the keyboard. And of course if you like the interface of the S3000. In my case I really prefer the physical buttons and the touch screen of the PX-560.

[Brad Saucier]

Hex layer tones are the best.  They allow some major flexibility and creativity in sound designing.  I hope to see more high end Casio products include hex layer tones in the future.  

[nethfel]

I can see what you two are saying (AndrewL and Brad Saucier). 

 

On one level I think the buttons would be nice, and it would be nice to have the screen.  I'm honestly not sure I'd ever use the hex layers to create sounds myself (I really don't have a lot of knowledge on that level) but I can see where it would be pretty cool to be able to use someone else's that they've made available.  The extra controls would be neat for trying things out.  The midi recorder isn't really a huge deal for me either way - usually if I record I record straight to an audio file (more of a player than a creator).  I will say I like the positioning of the USB A port on the 560 a hell of a lot better than where it is on the 3K (especially after reading from the person that accidentally left a usb stick in his 3K and when he packed it up he damaged the port )

 

On the 3K side, I like the 3 pedal input option that is only available via the furniture stand for the 560 (if I recall correctly) which kinda stinks.  It has a newer sound engine, different speaker setup (not really sure if this is good or bad since I can't go and try both in person anywhere and hear the speakers since I don't always want to use a headset) and the action is different.  I will say from my memory of the action on the CGP700 that I owned (bought back around the time they came out but I have since sold it) I think I liked the feel of the 3K keybed better (I was able to feel the 1K which uses the same keybed so...).  I do like the idea of being able to be battery operated - it's not a must have feature but I do like it.

 

Both have different advantages for the interface - on the 560 you have a touch interface right there, nothing more needed.  For the 3K you get a basic interface which can be obnoxious to navigate into the menus (reminds me of the GP series interface when I looked at those a couple years ago) but with a mobile device you get a much more advanced interface that makes the unit much more pleasurable to manage. 

 

There is also a several hundred dollar cost difference 😕

 

So you can kind of see why I am having trouble.  I'm still leaning a bit more toward the 3K but I haven't made my final decision yet.

[AndrewL]

It seems you pretty much have a clear panorama picture of the differences, so I don't think there's much else we could say. You should determine how you will use it. I'd recommend you watch several videos of people showcasing the interface, how things are set up, how it sounds, and then picture yourself using it...

 

For example, check what this guy explains at 4:41:

 

But if you won't do that often, then it may not affect you.

 

From what I've seen, the vast majority of PX560 owners are very happy with it, that helped me be more convinced of my decision and I don't regret it. But again, it depends on what type of use the keyboard will have.

Edited August 20, 2020 by AndrewL
Replaced "panorama" with "picture".

[nethfel]

9 hours ago, AndrewL said:

It seems you pretty much have a clear panorama of the differences, so I don't think there's much else we could say. You should determine how you will use it. I'd recommend you watch several videos of people showcasing the interface, how things are set up, how it sounds, and then picture yourself using it...

 

(MISREAD RESPONSE REMOVED).

 

I've been watching as many videos as I can find on both models - both demo of features as well as regular owners playing them to help me make my final decision.  It does help that I'm not in a super rush   

 

Quote

 

For example, check what this guy explains at 4:41:

 

But if you won't do that often, then it may not affect you.

 

From what I've seen, the vast majority of PX560 owners are very happy with it, that helped me be more convinced of my decision and I don't regret it. But again, it depends on what type of use the keyboard will have.

 

Thank you for your input and thoughts   And that video link, I don't remember seeing him in the ones I've watched so far (most of which have been Casio employee demos, various store demos, pianomanchuck and then a variety of people that have posted their performances). I’ll have to watch the other 4 of his videos that make up that series.

Edited August 20, 2020 by nethfel
Fix a misread of mine on a word from AndrewL’s post.

[missakwatch@gmail.com]

560 is way more bang for your buck.  how could u live with a 3 track sequencer ,  you'll need another device again or a pc again or another app or rig or studio gear again and each new device u connect to your keyboard will be an additional point of failure.  So much potential headache even before you can start to play your first note, let alone record.  with an all - in- one like the 560 ther are no more setup nightmares. With all the features, and power too, like with 250 polyphony, why carry a second keyboard?  WITH 17 tracks and i mean 17 midi 17 audio and 17 mixer tracks who needs to  carry all your Pro tools hardware ? That's why I chose the 560 I can go to the mountains with nothing but just a keyboard on my back .  No more cable no computers no tablets  no apps no lags no nothing just the 560 Workstation.  and no point of failure either ! anywhere.  at sea in the middle of nowhere i can finish a complete project with orchestral proportions and produce professional quality material and submit  to clients. with still all the power and polyphony to create or record more sounds. That's not even using the hex layer which isnt available in d 3k .  sso now u understand why I still think  the 3k is overpriced for a lot of 560 power it doesn't have.   

and never get insecure about sounds.  it's the least of your worry there are  gazillion sounds out there for free that your midi piano can control and play at any time .  plus it's a known fact even with Yamaha of Roland or Korg , that not all sounds sound better with newer engines.  There are rhodes  sounds from  pre-privia days  that still sound better than AIR or AIX rhodes.   ther are AHL sounds that arguably are less sterile  than their newer counterparts.  Yamaha's old P45 fm awm synthesis piano sound  is still favored over  the P85  P95  and  P105  of newer sound  sampling technologies and they were forced to re engineer the P115 last minute in case it suffered the same comparison.  Sometimes newer technology only means that.  something newer but not better.  and from the commercial standpoint , it's usually just a cheaper for more efficient way to make things.  

And if you’re worried about a lighter or heavier touch on the keybed just assess yourself.  Unless you’re a frail asian female less than 5 ft tall with thin small hands suffering from arthritis,  go for the standard heavy touch.  Always makes you a better pianist in the long run. U also make less mistakes when you record with a heavier feel.  Have you seen the 560 kbed up close? Grand piano galore it shames the Korg and Yamaha counterparts. U could charge serious rent for something that heavy feeling and that royal looking In your studio. OTOH the 3K is small and cute and if you’re a juvie still practising mostly go ahead go for its sexy looks why not. Make it your babe magnet.  i would if it were around during my days.  easy carry. too.  but now im done with all that . now I need a serious machine to do serious work.  I cant do it with only 3 tracks in a compact toy with no screen and a laggy app. So for those reasons I choose the 560.  There is no wrong choice.   Just hope to be happy with yours.   Good luck with that!

[Brad Saucier]

1 hour ago, nethfel said:

I'd say paranoia might be a bit of a strong term for it -

 

Andrew said "panorama".  

[Brad Saucier]

1 hour ago, missakwatch@gmail.com said:

WITH 17 tracks and i mean 17 midi 17 audio and 17 mixer tracks

 

What do you mean by 17 audio tracks?  To be clear, the MIDI recorder can't record audio.  

[nethfel]

35 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

 

Andrew said "panorama".  

DOH! You’re right.  Yet another reason why I shouldn’t respond to posts just after I wake up rofl.  I’ll correct my post

[nethfel]

On 8/20/2020 at 5:34 AM, missakwatch@gmail.com said:

560 is way more bang for your buck.  how could u live with a 3 track sequencer ,  you'll need another device again or a pc again or another app or rig or studio gear again and each new device u connect to your keyboard will be an additional point of failure.  So much potential headache even before you can start to play your first note, let alone record.  with an all - in- one like the 560 ther are no more setup nightmares. With all the features, and power too, like with 250 polyphony, why carry a second keyboard?  WITH 17 tracks and i mean 17 midi 17 audio and 17 mixer tracks who needs to  carry all your Pro tools hardware ? That's why I chose the 560 I can go to the mountains with nothing but just a keyboard on my back .  No more cable no computers no tablets  no apps no lags no nothing just the 560 Workstation.  and no point of failure either ! anywhere.  at sea in the middle of nowhere i can finish a complete project with orchestral proportions and produce professional quality material and submit  to clients. with still all the power and polyphony to create or record more sounds. That's not even using the hex layer which isnt available in d 3k .

 

On 8/20/2020 at 5:34 AM, missakwatch@gmail.com said:

  sso now u understand why I still think  the 3k is overpriced for a lot of 560 power it doesn't have.   

and never get insecure about sounds.  it's the least of your worry there are  gazillion sounds out there for free that your midi piano can control and play at any time .  plus it's a known fact even with Yamaha of Roland or Korg , that not all sounds sound better with newer engines.  There are rhodes  sounds from  pre-privia days  that still sound better than AIR or AIX rhodes.   ther are AHL sounds that arguably are less sterile  than their newer counterparts.  Yamaha's old P45 fm awm synthesis piano sound  is still favored over  the P85  P95  and  P105  of newer sound  sampling technologies and they were forced to re engineer the P115 last minute in case it suffered the same comparison.  Sometimes newer technology only means that.  something newer but not better.  and from the commercial standpoint , it's usually just a cheaper for more efficient way to make things.  

And if you’re worried about a lighter or heavier touch on the keybed just assess yourself.  Unless you’re a frail asian female less than 5 ft tall with thin small hands suffering from arthritis,  go for the standard heavy touch.  Always makes you a better pianist in the long run. U also make less mistakes when you record with a heavier feel.  Have you seen the 560 kbed up close? Grand piano galore it shames the Korg and Yamaha counterparts. U could charge serious rent for something that heavy feeling and that royal looking In your studio. OTOH the 3K is small and cute and if you’re a juvie still practising mostly go ahead go for its sexy looks why not. Make it your babe magnet.  i would if it were around during my days.  easy carry. too.  but now im done with all that . now I need a serious machine to do serious work.  I cant do it with only 3 tracks in a compact toy with no screen and a laggy app. So for those reasons I choose the 560.  There is no wrong choice.   Just hope to be happy with yours.   Good luck with that!

 

You have an entertaining way of describing your thought process with regards to the two keyboards.  

 

I’m not a creator so - honestly - the 17 midi tracks are way overkill for me (most I might need is 1 - and even then probably not as if I record anything it’s straight to audio file, not midi).  

 

In terms of keyboard weight, this is a second unit for me and not my regular practice unit.  My regular practice unit has a very accurate feel and both the keybed of the 560 (which I believe is the same as the CGP700 which I used to own) and the PX-S1000 I actually tried the feel of - neither are the same weight as my regular.

 

The 560 and the 3000 both have pluses and minuses.  I wish the 560 would come out with an update (and offer battery operation for a couple hours) then my decision would probably be easy

[missakwatch@gmail.com]

 

i wish so too neth.  these makers they give it to u little by little even if the technology is already there.  i  mean regardless

whether 3k or 560 or WK or XW,  why  only two hours  using battery when u can have it all night using  solar power.  charge it all day while in transport and play it all night.  casio had already perfected solar gadgetry  40 years ago.  why not a solar piano 40 years later.   i wish so too buddy.  until then id have to park my off roader way close to the shoreline and use the cigarette lighter ( through an inverter ) ,  to play anything  110w  in a beach bonfire setting .  well at least with a car lighter i can play all night.   or give me those wallet sized  power banks that double as an auto jump-starter and come with standard AC outlets.  get that and u can follow any tribesman into his tiki hut for some lasting  remote jungle jamming.  😄

[Jokeyman123]

Be careful about those 5 foot tall "frail Asian females"-one of the most punishing kicks to my gut in karate class years back was from a little girl called (ironically) "Bitsy" who was 4' 10"! One of the toughest opponents I ever sparred with-looks can be deceiving-she fooled me-was like a little steel robot! No joke.....

 

But yes, I love the PX560 overall for many of the reasons stated. If you are primarily motivated to play and practice piano, and don't have a problem with connecting a computer for additional functions-I'm sure the PX-S3000 or 1000 is a great machine. I've always liked keyboards more like "workstations" to encompass multitrack recording functions internally, I enjoy sound design and editing, and the hex layers are amazing if you like complex and evolving sounds and again, sound design.  I cut my teeth on the CZs when new, the FM programming from my SY77, still one of the most powerful keyboards for sonic resource I've ever played-samplers with editing-and the PX560 can actually come pretty close to those (doesn't sample buut has a gazillion raw wav samples to program with, so I am keeping the PX560.

 

if I needed a backup-I would probably get the PX-S3000  but I also have an older PX-350 which is also a pretty powerful Casio-17 tracks, great AIR sound engine, and i spent alot of time modding the keybed to make it wonderfully quiet and very comfortable to play. Not that it was bad in the first place-but I'm very picky. The 560 action is the same, and I can switch between the 2 with no adjustment to my technique at all-great long-key action, very much like a grand piano possibly a bit heavy for some-but probably not for "Bitsy"!

[Jokeyman123]

Not recommended by Casio-will void your warranty but I use several 12V portable power packs now that have recently come out, works well with my Casio PX560. Battery packs are "no noise" as can be when plugged in-are clean 12V, last a few hours since the privias use so little power.

[nethfel]

59 minutes ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Not recommended by Casio-will void your warranty but I use several 12V portable power packs now that have recently come out, works well with my Casio PX560. Battery packs are "no noise" as can be when plugged in-are clean 12V, last a few hours since the privias use so little power.

 

What portable power pack do you use? I remember seeing a video where pianomanchuck had used a small power pack (not the one where he used a battery backup) to drive one of his, but by the time I came across his video that power pack wasn't even made any more...

 

1 hour ago, Jokeyman123 said:

if I needed a backup-I would probably get the PX-S3000  but I also have an older PX-350 which is also a pretty powerful Casio-17 tracks, great AIR sound engine, and i spent alot of time modding the keybed to make it wonderfully quiet and very comfortable to play. Not that it was bad in the first place-but I'm very picky. The 560 action is the same, and I can switch between the 2 with no adjustment to my technique at all-great long-key action, very much like a grand piano possibly a bit heavy for some-but probably not for "Bitsy"!

 

Just out of curiosity, how did you end up modding your keybed?

 

[missakwatch@gmail.com]

On 8/23/2020 at 3:26 AM, Jokeyman123 said:

Be careful about those 5 foot tall "frail Asian females"-one of the most punishing kicks to my gut in karate class years back was from a little girl called (ironically) "Bitsy" who was 4' 10"! One of the toughest opponents I ever sparred with-looks can be deceiving-she fooled me-was like a little steel robot! No joke.....

 

But yes, I love the PX560 overall for many of the reasons stated. If you are primarily motivated to play and practice piano, and don't have a problem with connecting a computer for additional functions-I'm sure the PX-S3000 or 1000 is a great machine. I've always liked keyboards more like "workstations" to encompass multitrack recording functions internally, I enjoy sound design and editing, and the hex layers are amazing if you like complex and evolving sounds and again, sound design.  I cut my teeth on the CZs when new, the FM programming from my SY77, still one of the most powerful keyboards for sonic resource I've ever played-samplers with editing-and the PX560 can actually come pretty close to those (doesn't sample buut has a gazillion raw wav samples to program with, so I am keeping the PX560.

 

if I needed a backup-I would probably get the PX-S3000  but I also have an older PX-350 which is also a pretty powerful Casio-17 tracks, great AIR sound engine, and i spent alot of time modding the keybed to make it wonderfully quiet and very comfortable to play. Not that it was bad in the first place-but I'm very picky. The 560 action is the same, and I can switch between the 2 with no adjustment to my technique at all-great long-key action, very much like a grand piano possibly a bit heavy for some-but probably not for "Bitsy"!

Ha hahaha... Confucius say luv your asian woman, not spar her.  Only way to win .

damn right about the SY... Yes powerful until now... 

Wow u have the 350 too well aren't u set for real.!!  Imagine Daisy chaining 32 tracks and wallow in what....500 poliphony!!!  Now u'll never leave your studio .... No wonder Bitsy beat the crap out of u.  U aren't fulfilling her needs ...!   Go get dinner bring flowers and valentine with her now .  That's an order... hahaha
 

[Jokeyman123]

I can't do much anyway with this pandemic-and i married my own Bitsy, so I am very familiar with flower shops and valentines-and houses!!! But seriously-the 560 came into being after the 350-and I've kept both since the actions are so similar-and so are the acoustic pianos. As power packs go-I will post pics of what I've used-and switches from 9v to 12V so can be used for alot of my portable devices that need 9V or 12V-I can even run the Zoom MRS 1044 and 1266 from this and Yamaha QY's and RM1X, has alot of amperage to light these up-although the  CD burners use alot of power but will work. And it comes with a variety of barrel plug adapters-although the basic barrel plug fits the Casios perfectly. If I were "busking" I would probably need to bring 1-2 of these if i had no charging facilities nearby. And I only buy from reputable sources-as since these are probably made with the same lithium-ion battery cells as computer laptops-can be very dangerous if not from a reliable source-some Chinese vendors have been putting fake wrappers on used 18650 cells for quite a few years and selling these as new-I learned this when I tried to get replacement packs for my laptops-advertised as "new' and ended up lasting 10-15 minutes on a full charge-these vendors were all over Amazon and eBay for awhile selling these horrible phony packs-probably still are.