[Solved] Warning! Do not buy PX-S3000 as a Midi controller/Midi sound module

[john*]

Just a warning for folks who were thinking this keyboard would be a good Midi controller.

 

Probably obvious, but the USB midi functionality is not good.

Not a good choice for a studio Midi controller.

Weird/bad latency issues that don't occur with any of my other keyboards.

 

Not a good choice as a Midi sound module.

I love the sound of the PX, but it is not able to reproduce the playback when recorded via the USB Midi in a DAW.

Plays back a sound, but not the sound I was hearing as I recorded it.

 

That said, it is a fun keyboard if used as a stand-alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

There are many of us who have successfully used the PX-S3000 as a MIDI controller both with a DAW and with other MIDI devices. That's what it's designed to do.

 

Perhaps if you can provide more information about what you did and are trying to do, we can help you resolve your issues. Describe your setup, what you are connected to, what you are trying to do specifically, what DAW and platform, etc. I'm sure we have enough knowledge here to get you going.

[Brad Saucier]

In one way, the PX-S3000 is a more advanced MIDI controller than many other keyboards, because it has high resolution velocity.  Have you tried turning off high resolution velocity output in the S3000 MIDI settings?  That can cause issues with software that has not implemented the new standard yet. 

 

We have a YouTuber on the Facebook group that posts videos at least once a week using his S3000 as a controller for VST instruments as his sound source.  I've seen a number of people do the same with their S3000.   It's apparent the S3000 works great as a MIDI controller.  I'm curious to see what's causing your issues John.  

[Mike Martin]

@john*What is your DAW? What audio interface are you using? No reason the PX-S3000 couldn't function perfectly as both a controller and a sound module. I use it almost every day. The one thing that is confusing for some people is that the PX-S3000 has more than 16 MIDI channels so the USB input coming from your DAW is completely independent of the tone you're viewing on the LCD screen. You'll have to select the tones you want via bank and program changes on your DAW not from the front panel of the PX-S3000. I'll add that the PX-S3000 can't create latency - this is strictly a function of your DAW and your audio interface.

[john*]

Thanks for all of the replies!

Seems like there is great support for the PXS3000 here.

 

Thanks to your input, I discovered a solution to the first part of the problem.

 

In my case...

When using the PX as a controller, Local Control must be turned off. 

This is the first keyboard I've had that requires "Local Control Off" for accurate Midi output.

 

A simple test would be to play percussive 10 note chords through your DAW to a VI.

PSX doesn't have a speaker switch, but turn the volume all the way down.

While playing the PSX keyboard through your DAW to a VI, toggle back and forth between Local on and off.

 

In my case, this is a revelation.

Great relief from the weird flams on big chords!

Still not as tight as other keyboards, but now at least usable.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

This is because when you leave local control on-your midi connection is "echoing" your tones twice-it is looping the midi data back through-you are hearing your tone twice for every note you play. Once when you play it from the keyboard internally, and then again when the midi software sends the midi data to the tone generator and triggers the tone again. this is common for most keyboards when playing from software/DAW-I turn local off on the PX350/560 and most other keyboards so this does not happen. the other way to do this is to look at your software midi settings and see if there is a "midi thru" function-it can be turned on or off in the software I use to record-this way you can leave local control on, but the software won't echo back the tones while you are recording or playing the keyboard.

[john*]

Sorry I didn't explain clearly.

I'm talking about playing a Virtual Instrument in my DAW from the PXS. I'm not listening to the PXS... the volume is turned all the way down. (wish there was a speaker switch)

On my other keyboards, turning local on or off doesn't effect the midi output. Maybe this behavior is unique to Casio keyboards?

In any event, turning local off cleaned up the slop, quite a bit.

I'm much happier about the accuracy.

 

Re: Using the PXS as a midi module.

Using my DAW and midi, I'm still not able to record and playback the sounds I have stored in the Registers.

I've spent quite a bit of time sculpting the sounds and would love to have DAW access to them.

Is there a way to do that?

 

I'm able to access a blank patch grid under the heading CASIO-USB-MIDI.

I can select from 128 individual unnamed patches.

I can record and play the patches from my DAW.

The PX-S3000 ports are greyed out and not selectable.

Maybe the names would come up there?

 

Maybe not fair to expect a low cost keyboard to tick all of the boxes.

Maybe I missed a firmware update.

I'm still on the original firmware/software.

 

Now, I can at least use the PXS for control of VIs with fairly tight timing.

 

I'll stop complaining.😇

 

 

 

 

 

[DeltaJockey]

Actually, when I use my PX as a controller for vst's I don't bother turning the local off, I have a registration which has the keyboard volumes all turned down to save me menu diving between internal and external sounds. When setup for portability, I use the audio in for my vst audio from the computer and control it with the PX main volume.

It all works well, and I don't have any issues with latency. In fact the PX makes a particularly good controller with it's hi res MIDI out!

[john*]

Just to be sure...

 

Have you tried my test?

A simple test would be to play both hands 10 note chords slamming through your DAW to a VI.

I tend to play very dense chords in tight timing.

While playing the PXS keyboard through your DAW to a VI, toggle back and forth between Local on and off.

In my case, the timing got much better with local off.

A unified chord vs. a multi millisecond splatter of notes.

Weird but true.

 

That said, I like your solution for a speaker switch!

Can I save Local on/off in a registration?

 

I'm still not ready to give the PXS a thumbs up for use as a pro studio midi controller.

 

Getting closer, but no cigars at this point.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

John, that's right-because even if you are not hearing the double-triggering-the midi data is still being "echoed" triggering the sounds twice through midi data flow 2 times-once when you hit the key-triggers the tone generator through the keys internal midi data, and again as the software sends the midi data-so yes, there might still be a probem getting dense midi data through-, even with USB 2.0-this is not a very fast throughput compared to other kinds of computer data-and with high-resolution midi as the Casios can send, will make the midi data "stream" even more dense-more data is trying to get through a relatively narrow data path. This is why I still prefer din ports if my keys have it-there are electronics to "buffer" overloaded mid data streams-and error checking-the speeds are the same, but it is a fraction more able to handle midi data-the optocoupler built into midi din connections is an optical connection internally-and can help isolate interference coming from the keyboard, computer or even externally for longer cable runs, can help prevent connection failures and slower transmission/reception of midi data. A good USB to midi din adapter/cable will have that optocoupler chip in it, the cheap Chinese cables don't. and of course a straight USB cable connection from the computer to the keyboard doesn't have this IC either-is dependent upon the quality of the USB components in both keys and computer, and how the software is or isn't buffering the midi data stream.

[john*]

Hey Jokeyman,

Thanks for the excellent reply!

I'm running USB3 and all of my other 'USB only' keyboards are working well through this connection.

Are you suggesting that I'd be better off with a high quality USB to midi din adapter for the PXS?

Would that perform better?

I've got lots of open midi din slots.

Could you recommend a good choice for an adapter?

Thanks!

[Jokeyman123]

May or may not be better-but as an equipment junky, I keep several options and for me, the din connectors seem to work a little better depending on what I need to do, although straight usb to usb hasn't given me much trouble, as long as everything else is set up properly.  I've connected the PX350, 560 and even older 575 with straight usb cable to computer and have had no problems. And since you would need a "host' device to translate the PX-S usb port to midi din-not sure it would benefit-would be an expensive experiment if it gave you no advantages. The least expensive host box I've found that works is the Midiplus which at last look is still costing around 60.00 or more. The Kenton is almost always over 100.00 everywhere-same concept. And since you are still using the computer's USB port-that would still present a bit of bottleneck depending upon USB ports. USB 3.0 does not present any real benefits to our keyboards AFAIK, since most every keyboard or tone module is still only capable of USB 2.0 data rates. 

 

I use the Midiplus-but only since I like to connect the USB only Privias to midi din hardware-older midi devices that have no USB interfaces such as my Yamaha QY's, and this works well.  Also presents more cables to connect, so only really useful for that particular function.

 

One other option you may not be aware of-if you wish to connect your PX-S to interface with a combination of software DAWS, and other midi usb or even midi din devices with the additional host box, Midiox's website has a software program called MidiYoke that allows you to route or connect each internal computer midi device-it get complicated, but it can be done. For instance, if you are running a midi style player and want to connect that internally to your DAW or other software, MidiYoke can set that up within the computer, similar to what we originally had to do with "daisy-chaining" midi din keyboards for layering sounds and triggering one keyboard sequencer with another.

http://www.midiox.com/

 

I'm sure the PX-s must be powerful enough-fast enough processor-to be able to do this if you need to. For example-you could connect the PX-S to your computer with a straight USB printer cable-MidiYoke will "see" that connection-and then it will make it possible to route that input to whatever else is running in your computer, or to other midi devices also connected to your computer. The only speedbump to all this-a standard computer multi-port USB hub adapter doesn't usually work when connecting multiple midi usb devices to one usb computer port. For that-you would need a multi-port midi usb hardware box that does this such as the iConnect or something similar in which scenario you might not need software internal re-routing such as MidiYoke at all. I always trust hardware more than software-but then I have spent many years troubleshooting the myriad problems created by respective operating systems that do not always play nice with our music equipment!

Edited December 20, 2022 by Jokeyman123

[john*]

Hey Jokeyman,

 

Once again, I thank you for your kind and informative reply.

Lots of great info.

At this point, I think I will forgo the USB to midi din convertor.

I have a couple of old midi din interfaces, but I realized that they are both connected to my computer via USB.

 

That said, with local turned off on the PXS, I'm now getting good results sending midi over USB.

The difference is night and day.

Also, I'm getting really fast at accessing the local on/off switch.😉

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

You are most welcome, glad I could help.

[Michal1982]

Hey Everyone!

Please let me know is it possible to connect PX-S3000 to the Abaton Live?

Thanks in advance for your prompt reply.