What are the differences between traditional MIDI IN, OUT, THRU ports and USB MIDI?

[Akshansh - Alex]

Hello Everyone, I'm getting confusion about What is the Difference between a USB MIDI and Out Thru MIDI

And what can I done with a Round Shape MIDI Out Thru on MZ-X500?

Picture of both MIDI cables are given below

Thanking You

Akshansh Khare 🙂

[Random_Vibration]

Probably should start your own topic instead of piggybacking on someone else's with a different subject.  The people who can answer your question accurately may not see it buried in an old subject that has been addressed.

[casio_style]

midi in - accepts midi messages from other midi devices
midi out - sends midi messages to other midi devices
midi thru - forwards midi messages from one device to another.
usb midi is needed mainly to connect to computers.
If you don’t know what to do with all this, then you don’t need all this yet, just play and enjoy.

[Kostas]

For me the main difference is if a computer is needed or not. The old MIDI ports connect keyboards, synths and sound modules directly without computer. This is the way to built a castle from keyboards. The USB MIDI always requires a computer in a keyboard setup. Pro instruments have both connectors. I like to have both options from an instrument, USB to computer and MIDI to other keyboards.

[Jokeyman123]

The other distinct differences which should be obvious but important to understand...I suggest you do some online research of you really need to know some of this.....I hope you don't, sort of can ruin the fun of playing music....

 

1) You need both midi din out and in connections for certain functions to work-but not for everything. For example, you can connect 1 midi din out port on one keyboard to 1 midi din in on another keyboard or tone module with only one cable, if you just wish to play the sounds of a 2nd keyboard with the keys of your primary keyboard. But for certain functions-

 

2) You need to connect both in and out with 2 cables to another keyboard, hardware sequencer or tone module-as certain midi din devices need to receive a signal, and send another back out-called "handshaking" for error correction originally-to check that the right data was received. for example with my XW-P1 Casio, if I want to send data back and forth-I have to use a USB cable (see below description) or both midi din in and out ports and cables connected to the computer with a USB midi din adapter cable or box-I know it's getting too complicated already, sigh.   

 

3) Only one computer USB cable, called a type "A" as you show in your pictures-is needed for both midi in and out messages-the computer and keyboard are supposed to "understand" this although in practice, this is what often causes problems because you are using the same cable to send signals in and out-like using the same vacuum cleaner hose connected to one vacuum cleaner exhaust-and switching the motor to suck air in and blow it out. Doesn't work too well with a vacuum cleaner-and with one USB midi cable-sometimes doesn't work too well either! If midi data doesn't get through the USB cable-due to a bad cable, dirty connections or errors in the software-the hose gets clogged, and nothing will work (pretty clever eh?)  Hope this helps, if it doesn't I'm not Jokeyman, I'm Philoe Kvetch

[cooltouch]

A simple way I view the difference between the old style DIN connectors and the USB connector is that devices with the DIN connectors can be daisychained together, not unlike the good old SCSI spec, whereas a device with the USB connector can only be connected directly to a computer.

 

If you have a device with the old style DIN connectors and you want to connect it to a computer that doesn't have the old joystick/MIDI port, then you can get an adapter -- Roland makes one, called the UM-ONE. If, however, you are using an external audio interface with your computer, most of these have the old style DIN in/out ports, which get the job done. But I don't think you can daisychain instruments together when you use one of these audio interfaces, mostly I suppose because they hook up to the computer via an USB connection.

 

So, what to do if you have more than one device with the old connectors (as I do)? Well, in my case, I have a Roland GR-33 guitar synthesizer, an old Yamaha PSR keyboard, and a Roland JV-1010 synth unit. All old-school stuff, but all of them still do a good job. So, what to do? Well, one possibility is to get a hold of a Midiman MidiSport. They were made in 2x2, 4x4, and 8x8 versions. But I've heard good and bad about these with later Windows OSes. I own a couple of the Midisport 2x2's, but to be honest I haven't tried them out with my new DAW setup -- yet. The other possibility is to record each MIDI device separately, but this gets tricky because they will only produce sounds in your DAW software as long as they're connected. The solution to this is to record the device's audio onto audio tracks in the DAW software. Then you're free from the restrictions caused by this USB/MIDI issue.

 

Of the above three old-school MIDI devices I own, the only one I've used in recent years is the Roland GR-33, and what I've done with it was to first record the MIDI to set down a MIDI track via my audio interface -- because it has the DIN ports -- then hook up the audio outs of the GR-33 to the audio interface, and record the device's audio onto an audio track. I prefer doing it this way because, when it comes time to enhance or add effects, one has many more options available for audio than MIDI. So once the audio track is laid down, the MIDI track becomes superfluous, although I like to keep it as a reference.

[Jokeyman123]

Cooltouch-the Midisport 2 x 2 works fine with Windows 7-not sure about 10, if it ain't broke-7 is fine. Microsoft has a unique way of eliminating key parts of the OS that musicians need to get it to work. I'm sure 10 is fine, but I'll wait a few years until everyone else finds out what's wrong with it, and figures out how to fix it themselves. The Midisport-must have a generous buffer for data, it works better than any other I've tried.  nice post, i give it a "10" just not Windows 10, my "10"!

[cooltouch]

Thanks, Jokeyman. Good to hear about the Midisorts working in Win7. I've just recently upgraded my DAW to Win10 and I have mixed feelings about it, to be honest. I still prefer Win7. So what I've decided to do is build a Win7 dedicated machine, for sake of legacy hardware and software, and hopefully be able to interface the two systems when it comes to my music. I've also got an older machine that is just collecting dust. I have Win7 installed on it but because of its RAM restrictions, it pokes along. So, I'm gonna install XP on it. And finally I'll be able to use a couple of old sound cards with synth chips on board. Some of those old sound cards' synth voices were mostly crap, but there were a few that were actually outstanding, one in particular that I've missed and would very much like to have access to again.

 

[IanB]

@Jokeyman123A reviewer (actually the only reviewer lol) of my CZ editor says it works fine with their Midisport 2x2. Since my software is Win 10 only, it would seem the Midisport works fine on Windows 10.

 

@cooltouch I miss using my old Soundblaster Live! cards. Back around the turn of the century I had two in one machine and using Soundfonts meant I basically had two samplers in the machine; they also had DSP effects (I even ran the EMU-APS drivers on one card) and, something many people didn't realise, you could do analogue type synth filtering on the samples too. The onboard EMU chip was that powerful.

 

I've been idly musing about building a dedicated Win98 machine just to run them, which would basically operate as a sampler/synth/effects unit.

[Jokeyman123]

If you need a copy of Windows 98, i think you can still download it somewhere. I saved all my OS from 95 up! I have an old G40 thinkpad I restored with windows XP SP III-and a built-in floppy drive-to use with my "legacy" software and my older workstations that have floppy drives-my SY77, Equinox and TS-12.  

[cooltouch]

I save my old OSes as well, not only that, I save my old machines. From my very first -- a PC-XT clone, to my most recently retired, which to be honest was faster than the machine I'm running now. Sorta disappointing, tbh. I dunno how much upgrading from Win7 to Win10 had to do with that.

 

I've also been thinking about building a Win98 machine -- and just sucking it up, knowing I'll be dealing with a lot of BSODs. Unfortunately, my Win98 disk has sustained physical damage, so I'm gonna have to find another copy if I build that machine.

 

Hey Ian, where on Earth did you get that quote -- supposedly from me?  i kinda agree with some but not all of it. Yes I miss my old Soundblaster card(s) but that's mostly because of a couple of instruments that the cards' synths have. I never used softsynths with them and I never used more than one SB card at a time. I did, however, have a machine in which I had an SB card and a Yamaha XG card.  The Yamaha card also had an onboard synth. That was an interesting setup. 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

Cooltouch-try to get the Windows 98SE package-the SE update is much better and I used it constantly-was pretty stable. I think i can find links to both 98 as a download and the SE as an add-on package, which unlike newer versions of Windozz that seem to always require endless security patches, endless visual Basic updates-I must have 5-6 versions on all my machines because depending on software I install-it might need older or newer versions of this!!!!! And Java-yes some developers insist on the Java install to run their music software. Just when I thought I'd never have to see it again-but then I do use some dinosaur software for my older keys.  I just make sure I stay off the Internet for anything older than W7. Right now, I'm playing with an Alesis Fusion that has very limited software available-and is more happy with XP than 7 but will work with either. I'll see if I can locate Win 98SE and post a link here. I don't have dropbox or any other cloud account set up right now or I could upload my 98SE copy. Probably easier to find a link. I'll post back. 

[Jokeyman123]

Wow was that easy, even easier to find than the last time I looked, which was only this past year.  I guess since Microsoft doesn't want to be bothered with it and it has no money-making potential, here it is.....

 

https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-98/98-second-edition

[IanB]

Personally I still have my original copy of Win98SE. I actually liked it a lot and didn't have particular BSOD issues also. At the moment I have a computer suitable for it but it's a big full sized motherboard and at some point I want to find a small motherboard so I can packaged it with the cards in a small case. It's only my list of things I probably might do in the future

[Brad Saucier]

Guys, you might want to start a new thread for this classic OS discussion.  

[cooltouch]

OK, well, I still have some comments and questions, so I'm gonna start a new thread on the topic of old OSes.

 

[methodman3000]

These are preliiminary questions.  If you want to use vst's and multiple instruments in a sequencer and use the Casio ct-X3000 as a controller than you should learn about midi.  Groove 3 a teacher of many different sequencers and vst's has a special going on $100 for full access to all the musical tutorials on his sight.  What sequencer are you using?