CT-S1000V: First impression good, but ...

[rsaintjohn]

To all those falling over themselves to do apples-to-bicycles price comparison: I can’t help but notice you’re citing European prices that include VAT, and apparently unaware that US prices you see do not include the variable State Sales Tax that most have to pay. I certainly didn’t pay “$449” for my CT-S1000V, which thankfully finally arrived this week.
 

How much is VAT? 20%? And the CT-S1000V is about 475€ incl. VAT? So £380 for the actual product, about $507. I paid $484 with tax. Californians would pay $488. That’s about 4% difference compared to Euro price, if my numbers are correct. So stop painting this false picture that those in the USA are somehow getting this gear for 20% less. 

[Shad0wfax]

That's not what we are talking about here. The point is NOT that prices in USA are lower than in EU (although this is true in general terms, mostly due to the differences between VAT in EU countries and the corresponding sales tax in the States). The point is that, for some reason, Casio products in EU are significantly more expensive when compared to other brands, such as Yamaha. Yamaha keyboards are also subject to VAT and thay also come from non-EU countries, and the differences in price between USA-EU are much lower in Yamaha products than in Casio products.

[rsaintjohn]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:16 AM, Shad0wfax said:

It's not only that simmilar products of other brands might be cheaper, but that even the very same product in other countries are much cheaper (compare CT-S500's $379 in the USA to $465 in Europe, in the cheapest online stores; and E473's $369 in the USA to $419 in Europe).

 

Your words, not mine, thanks for playing.

[Silvano Silva]

On 2/25/2022 at 2:17 AM, Just Alex said:

Here in Georgia, S1000V costs same as Yamaha PSR S-670, which is far better in all aspects (except it is missing the singing chipmunks feature, of course)

 

Never that here in Brazil the Yamaha would cost this price.
A used S670 here sells an average of 600 Dollars.
The Sx600 is 1600 dollars.

[Chas]

Here's a few other points to consider:

 

For all those complaining that the price of the CT-S1000V is too expensive compared with manufacturer X's Product Y, then if Product Y is more affordable, why not get Product Y and be happy? 

 

The same applies to the perceived feature set of Product Y vs the Casiotone CT-S1000V - if Product Y is better value, then get Product Y.

 

Or is it the fact that the Casiotone CT-S1000V offers a unique set of features that can't be found in other manufacturer's keyboards? In other words, it has unique strengths and  features  that you are paying extra for, and its value and musical worth is therefore higher for those that WANT that particular feature set. And maybe that's why some people complain about the S1000V price, it's because they actually do want it for this very reason. It has a uniqueness that makes it stand out against other keyboards. Same reason that you'd pay more for a new Prophet Take 5 compared with a CT-S1000V. How can that be when the CT-S1000V wipes the floor with the Take 5 when it comes to number of features? Well, the Prophet Take 5 has some very unique and powerful sound features that the CT-S1000V doesn't have, and THAT'S what you are paying for - the Take 5 "sound" and uniqueness, not a similar feature set.

 

It's important to also consider this when comparing the CT-S1000V with product X/ Y/ Z - The CT-S1000V is a BRAND NEW PRODUCT. Most manufacturers when they release a new product, certainly prior to COVID, always price it at the highest worth point on release. If sales are slow over a set period of time, then the price will get reduced. The other thing to consider is that all manufacturers have to cover R&D costs, and they initially price their products so that the estimated sales targets will allow those costs to be recouped and then the product will start turning a profit. Also remember that there is no guarantee exactly how many units a new product will actually sell on release, so generally initial production levels are set at a conservative level and also to cover costs. IF the demand for the product starts outstripping supply, THEN production levels are increased to meet this demand. This is basic mass production economics, so when production levels can go up, it means that the product can be produced for LESS and this eventually gets passed on to the consumer. A good example of this is the recent Yamaha PSS range. Barely 18 months ago I put together a video review of the Casio SA-76, and in the course of my research I looked to find the nearest rivals with a similar feature set. The closest was the Yamaha PSS-F30, and at the time (Nov 2020) it was selling for $99.99 compared with the SA-76 at $54.99.  18 months later, the Yamaha PSS-F30 is now $59.99, and the SA-76 is still $54.99. The SA-76 is a well established model that has been in production for a number of years, the PSS-F30 was a NEW product and has since come down in price.

 

Therefore it is absolutely essential that when comparing the CT-S1000V with other keyboards, you are not comparing it with an older design of keyboard that has already had some price drops.

 

As for the price difference between EU and US markets, that could be caused by many factors, such as whether parts are manufactured or even assembled in the EU. If Casio are bringing the complete keyboards in directly from outside the EU, they could be subjected to higher import duties compared with a company that imports parts and assembles the keyboards from within the EU. Many overseas companies set up branches/ subsidiaries, (or form an alliance with a local manufacturing company)  and employ EU citizens to be able to access specific markets and sell their products without being hit by import duty. Whether this is the case for the Casio vs Yamaha price difference, I don't know for sure but it could certainly be a factor. And as @rsaintjohnpointed out above, most UK (and I think EU) advertised prices include TAX/ VAT (and yes, the UK rate was 20% up until COVID, and in April 2022 will go back up to 20%). This means that the UK prices already include the added TAX, whereas US prices are shown WITHOUT TAX as  sales TAX varies from state to state.  In Florida, my S1000V had an additional $31.50 added to the $449.99 RRP price, meaning that the total price paid at checkout was actually $482.49. We also need to take into account exchange rates, and that opens up a whole other can of worms that can mess with retail prices depending on which country/ continent that you are in.

 

And lastly, there's a saying that goes something along the line of "An item is only worth what the market is willing to pay for it". Here in the US, the S1000V on Casio's own website is listed as "Temporarily out of stock". I'm sure you can find it at some music stores, but currently it seems that demand is outstripping supply. On the Casio UK website, the S1000V is listed as "only 19 left". That's not many for a market the size of the UK, and that again suggests it is selling well and the price is not deterring most buyers.

 

Now, if only we could spend more time and energy on using the actual keyboards we own than on complaining about the keyboards we don't own! Wishful thinking I know.....!

 

 

 

  

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Chas

[pjd]

Just read Chas' long reply. Thanks.

 

Thought of another issue -- currency fluctuations and hedging. I haven't read Casio's annual report, but Yamaha suffered losses due to currency fluctuations and raised prices in response. Tough business decisions in a global marketplace.

 

All the best -- pj

 

[vbdx66]

Guys, I don’t want to spoil the party, but with what is currently happening in Eastern Europe I’d like to make two comments:

 

- One topic-related comment: with what is currently happening on the international scene, I think that the supply chain will be globally impacted and that we can count on a shortage of electronically components, difficulties to have items such as electronic music instruments being shipped, etc. The prices of all keyboard brands may raise heavily in coming months.

- One off-topic comment: with what is currently happening in Eastern Europe (only 2000 km off from where I am currently living it the South of France), which keyboard brand is better will become the least of our concerns. Our concerns will more be about welcoming and managing refugees, the price of food and of basic supplies raising worldwide, shortages of everything  and of course the fear of having to face a Third World War.  Both my grand fathers served in the Belgium army during WWII (one of them was a prisoner of war during five years) and both my parents were born during WWII so what is happening now is bringing very bad memories.

[Brad Saucier]

https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/guidelines/

[pianokeyjoe]

@Brad SaucierOops sir! I think we all guilty!! Sorry bout that! We all talked about the prices 😛

 

[Jokeyman123]

Sometimes it not what you say that's important-it's what you don't say......

[Jokeyman123]

VBDX what you say makes alot of sense and I agree, perspective is very important. I hope you will stay safe and feel some small sense of peace through this time.

 

A book I read years ago brings the importance of keeping our cultural traditions at the forefront despite the obvious horrors human existence can bring. Administrators I apologize-trying to only take this as far as the Great Pumpkin-many interred in the concentration camps during WWII tried to do that-they would stage plays in the dirt, making their own stages out of scraps, put on performances when they could get away with it-imprisoned musicians made "instruments" out of sticks-and practiced on them since everything else was taken from them. A piano virtuoso drew a keyboard in the dirt, and played on it, just to remember how it was done.  I am not making this up. Growing up, I knew a family who survived this, and their children-all 3 had piano lessons regularly-and were quite good at it. This family was a big part of my inspiration to study music. I saw that this was not just a frivolous pastime, but something apparently much more meaningful. Just trying to give you some hope, to play however and whatever you can. Thanks vbdx. Administrators, if this is an inappropriate post I will remove it.