4 Zones but 16 tracks

[Hugh O Kelly]

Am I missing something

 

A midi file will play 16 tracks on the Px-5s…….true ?

 

Px-5s will play on 4 zones only

 

Where are the other 12 gone   ?

 

So if the midi file can access all 16 why can't we ?

 

or do I have it wrong ?

[Display Name]

Ahh. good question. You can actually get 14 voice multitimbre DIRECT from the keyboard by programing the HI-LOW in your hexlayers zones and 2 other melody tones. The zones are more for controlling performance features and using external sounds.. really has nothing to do with the sound generator.

[Hugh O Kelly]

Thanks Scott,

So can the PX-5s play back midi files ?

 

And if so,is it somehow internally ? That we can access ?

[Display Name]

Yep - and if you find some good quality MIDI files, it sounds good!

You play back MIDI files either from the USB drive: Plug in USB drive, press AND HOLD media button.. LOAD SMF.. select song.. hit play. 

Or via USB MIDI from a DAW or MIDI file player.

[Hugh O Kelly]

So when the midi files are playing

Can you play the PX-5s at the same time  or not ?

[Normski]

So when the midi files are playing

Can you play the PX-5s at the same time  or not ?

Hi Hugh

 

Yes, you can.

Norm

[Hugh O Kelly]

Thanks Norm,

So if its using 16 tracks in midi to play back the midi file

How can you use the PX -5s to play live

Where is it getting the extra tracks(keyboard setups ) from

I just want to understand how it works

[Display Name]

Select the stage setting you want to use and then start the MIDI file. You can't change SS in the middle of a song. One way around this is to to use a DAW to render the MIDI file to a WAV and then play back the wav via the PX-5S usb... then you can change sounds while the song is playing. Just experiment.. you won't break anything! 

[Brad Saucier]

Keep in mind that most midi files will be using the first 4 tracks which are shared with the 4 zones on the PX5.  If the midi file has a bank/program change and you hit play, then the tones in the 4 zones will change to whatever the midi file calls for.  Also note that the song sequencer on the PX5 utilizes channels 5-12 by default.

[Hugh O Kelly]

I get it but the donkey is wondering if the midi files can access channel 5-16

Why can't we

 

If you explained it to him so he could understand he would be very happy.

 

He ha!

[Brad Saucier]

Ummm....the donkey?   In what way would the donkey like to access those channels?  The donkey can access those channels by creating a song with the song sequencer.  He can also access them via midi.

[Choppin]

Just to chime in here a little bit:  Hugh, remember when I tried to differentiate between Parts, Zones, and Midi Channels?  This is a case where it applies.  Midi channels are the channels that are used to transmit midi data for communication.  They are the "addresses" so to speak of where the midi music will go (I'm sure you know this, I'm just try to emphasize a point).   All of the parts Play Back midi data that is fed into them.  It is fed into them either through an external keyboard or other device, the USB drive as a midi file, the internal sequencer through a song, or through a DAW if it has a sequencer.  You cannot play parts 5-16 by playing on the keyboard.  You can only play parts 5-16 via midi.

 

Only parts 1-4 can be played from the keyboard, but any one of these 4 zones can be assigned any midi channel.  The point is, don't mix up midi channels with the Px-5s parts.  They relate, but because of the flexibility of parts 1-4, the channels to parts don't have to be a 1 to 1 match up.

 

Note that the song sequencer is only 8 tracks.  However, any track can be assigned any midi channel and any instrument tone (except hex layers, I think).

[gueninmi]

Hi

 

Just to be sure  before buying a px-5s :

 

when i read your post above, you say that i can play parts 1-16 via midi (so 16 tracks).

I want to use a pc sequencer and i would like to have 16 tracks available (with bank change, etc) to play 15 different tones + 1 drum tone..

Can you confirm it is really possible on px-5s ?

 

If Not i could use Song Sequencer but there ara only 8 tracks and Ralf said that hex Layers tones cannot be chosen in song sequencer and V1.11 firmware talks about recordind improvments but there are no list of these improvments.

 

Thank's a lot for an answer because i would be very sad if i bought a px-5s that cannot record 16 tracks with a pc sequencer.

 

Best regards

[Display Name]

Yes the PX-5S has 16 tone mulitimbre via MIDI, 14 tone directly from the keyboard.

[Hugh O Kelly]

This answer works for me

 

 

 

 

Expert

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

 

"I'll be straight with you on this subject.  I would not recommend the PX-5S if you're looking to do sequencing.  It is not a traditional song writing sequencer at all.  

 

The PX-5S has a phrase sequencer in it.  The primary purpose of this is to provide a way to trigger riffs or patterns from the keyboard.  This could be a bass line, a drum pattern or a horn riff that otherwise you couldn't do because you're playing other things at the same time.  It can also be used to create incredible animation to parts (like an arpeggiator).

 

So each of the 4 zones can trigger either an arpeggiator or a phrase.

 

In addition to that the PX-5S has a 8 track, Song Sequencer.  This allows you to take phrases and chain them together into a longer song.  It is much like working with a drum machine where you tell it to play a particular pattern x number of times then go to the next pattern.  You can do this with multiple instruments and multiple tracks.  To be honest, I have yet to use it the song sequencer, although I've looked at it to get an understanding of how it works.  There are some plans to make some improvements to it in another firmware update, but I would not let the inclusion of a sequencer influence your buying decision."

 

[gueninmi]

Hi


Thank you for your honesty about PX-5S which should not be bought in order to do sequencing (Mike Martin has already said that it's not a workstation) but i am very embarrassed because i need :

  - a portable keyboard with 88 keys and good heavy touch
  - various sounds like hex layers, arpeggios and the possibility to create or download new sounds
  - a cost of 1000 euros maximum

PX-5S has all qualities that i am searching for, except the sequencer which could be improved in a new firmware (not sure) but with a PC sequencer, it can work even if the PX-5S is not very easy to use for this purpose.

Choice is very difficult because :
  - i could look at Korg Kross 88 which has a real sequencer but i think keyboard is much worse than the px-5s
  - i can also wait several months (but not several years) until Casio present a new workstation with same possbilities than the PX-5S (NAMM 2014 ?) but Casio doesn't say anything about new announces

That is why I consider all opinions and why i am wondering about buying PX-5S or not ...

Great thanks to all participants of this forum

[Hugh O Kelly]

All I can say is the PX-5s is the best keyboard I've ever had

since the x-wife had an accident and fell down a wishing well and broke her neck

( and I never knew they worked )

[joelfan]

Hi

Thank you for your honesty about PX-5S which should not be bought in order to do sequencing (Mike Martin has already said that it's not a workstation) but i am very embarrassed because i need :

  - a portable keyboard with 88 keys and good heavy touch

  - various sounds like hex layers, arpeggios and the possibility to create or download new sounds

  - a cost of 1000 euros maximum

PX-5S has all qualities that i am searching for, except the sequencer which could be improved in a new firmware (not sure) but with a PC sequencer, it can work even if the PX-5S is not very easy to use for this purpose.

Choice is very difficult because :

  - i could look at Korg Kross 88 which has a real sequencer but i think keyboard is much worse than the px-5s

  - i can also wait several months (but not several years) until Casio present a new workstation with same possbilities than the PX-5S (NAMM 2014 ?) but Casio doesn't say anything about new announces

That is why I consider all opinions and why i am wondering about buying PX-5S or not ...

Great thanks to all participants of this forum

Gueninmi,

I can hardly undertand why we should need a sequencer on a live keyboard. PX5S is a stage piano, and in 2013 you can find WIN/MAC/LINUX sequencers that run on your computer. Even free.

[Hugh O Kelly]

"I can hardly undertand why we should need a sequencer on a live keyboard. PX5S is a stage piano, and in 2013 you can find WIN/MAC/LINUX sequencers that run on your computer. Even free."

Why?

I just did my gig

What keyboards did I use

Only needed one

Drum machine;don't need one

mp3 player for backing tracks;got one

Need three hands…..got one in the arpeggiator or phrase.

With some care I can now walk into the gig in one go with my bose compact and PX-5s and leads bag.

How bad !

[Display Name]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Some people like on board sequencers, some like to use a DAW. I have both....I don't pick PC vs. iOS or Hardware vs software. I use everything I can get my hands on.. no compromises.. use the best of everything.. if there's something I don't like I don't use it. 

[ultra.klick]

Hi

Thank you for your honesty about PX-5S which should not be bought in order to do sequencing (Mike Martin has already said that it's not a workstation) but i am very embarrassed because i need :

  - a portable keyboard with 88 keys and good heavy touch

  - various sounds like hex layers, arpeggios and the possibility to create or download new sounds

  - a cost of 1000 euros maximum

PX-5S has all qualities that i am searching for, except the sequencer which could be improved in a new firmware (not sure) but with a PC sequencer, it can work even if the PX-5S is not very easy to use for this purpose.

Choice is very difficult because :

  - i could look at Korg Kross 88 which has a real sequencer but i think keyboard is much worse than the px-5s

  - i can also wait several months (but not several years) until Casio present a new workstation with same possbilities than the PX-5S (NAMM 2014 ?) but Casio doesn't say anything about new announces

That is why I consider all opinions and why i am wondering about buying PX-5S or not ...

Great thanks to all participants of this forum

 

You cannot have all . I think PX-5s is nothing for people who wants a tone-generator for external MIDI-devices . There is no information available (like conventional MIDI-Implementation chart) which can explain the MIDI-possibilities of this tone-generator . They make hours and days of videos instead of an advanced manual . The same is with XW-series . A look on PX´s  83-pages (!)  "midi-implemantation" shows : if you want to

have a simple oversight about MIDI , you have no chance . You must print this 83 pages and then compare point to point to point to point -

what is happening if i use external devices . It have 256-polyphony , which is the biggest generator on the market , but you can only play a little bit on the keyboard with little accompaniment . Thats all with this keyboard . It seems to like an typical Casio-keyboard , great but with strongly limited or restricted possibilities for making advanced music .

Your choice :  Korg Krome has only 128-polyphony but a 7"-display through which you can quickly access (i hope so) ALL the parameters are possible . For the same price . But you have only 61 keys .

So you can choose between 88 keys or a professional easy-editing sound-machine .

 

On the other hand Kurzweil (is from korea) have professional Fatar- (from italy!) keyboards , the best and easy editing possibilities (pc-editor) of all . Costs ? LE editions or SP-StagePianos at the same price (700-1200) but only are 64-polyphony .

 

Conclusio : You can buy PX as a playable keyboard with litlle sound possibilities PLUS an access virus ti2 sound module for about the same price as a professional Kurzweil-music-station with 88adjustable keys .

 

The PX-5s timbres are ONLY fully editable on hex-layers (max. 2) , don´t forget . The other 14 channels are very very simple construction .

twice the time : this is no useable tone-generator for advanced musical purposes .

 

So , we are fully free to choose some cheese from the cost-intensive cheese platter !

[User 29303]

OK ..if i Programm a jazz Guitar on Zone 1-4 how do i play this from a DAW ? should copy the jazz midi in 4 different tracks assigned to midi channel 1-4 or do i set zone 1-4 on midi channel 1 ? 

[Display Name]

You cannot have all . I think PX-5s is nothing for people who wants a tone-generator for external MIDI-devices . There is no information available (like conventional MIDI-Implementation chart) which can explain the MIDI-possibilities of this tone-generator . They make hours and days of videos instead of an advanced manual . The same is with XW-series . A look on PX´s  83-pages (!)  "midi-implemantation" shows : if you want to

have a simple oversight about MIDI , you have no chance . You must print this 83 pages and then compare point to point to point to point -

what is happening if i use external devices . It have 256-polyphony , which is the biggest generator on the market , but you can only play a little bit on the keyboard with little accompaniment . Thats all with this keyboard . It seems to like an typical Casio-keyboard , great but with strongly limited or restricted possibilities for making advanced music .

Your choice :  Korg Krome has only 128-polyphony but a 7"-display through which you can quickly access (i hope so) ALL the parameters are possible . For the same price . But you have only 61 keys .

So you can choose between 88 keys or a professional easy-editing sound-machine .

 

On the other hand Kurzweil (is from korea) have professional Fatar- (from italy!) keyboards , the best and easy editing possibilities (pc-editor) of all . Costs ? LE editions or SP-StagePianos at the same price (700-1200) but only are 64-polyphony .

 

Conclusio : You can buy PX as a playable keyboard with litlle sound possibilities PLUS an access virus ti2 sound module for about the same price as a professional Kurzweil-music-station with 88adjustable keys .

 

The PX-5s timbres are ONLY fully editable on hex-layers (max. 2) , don´t forget . The other 14 channels are very very simple construction .

twice the time : this is no useable tone-generator for advanced musical purposes .

 

So , we are fully free to choose some cheese from the cost-intensive cheese platter !

 

The bottom line is the PX-5S is primarily a live performance Stage Piano / Studio Controller. While it does have some sequencing functionality, it is definitely not a workstation. What you have is an extremely lightweight and capable gigging instrument as well as a flexible sound design canvas and MIDI controller.   

Yes the GM tones can be used to play MIDI files. The results you get from these depends largely on the source MIDI file.. some are much better than others. However, the real power of the PX-5S is using the 256 poly and hexlayers to split and layer up to 14 sounds at once across the keyboard. Believe me when I say: "You ain't heard nothin' yet!". The sound designers have made some amazing Stage Settings so far, but there is some amazing potential for evolving soundscapes, "song ready" arpeggios splits orchestral cross layers. 

[ultra.klick]

The bottom line is the PX-5S is primarily a live performance Stage Piano / Studio Controller. While it does have some sequencing functionality, it is definitely not a workstation. What you have is an extremely lightweight and capable gigging instrument as well as a flexible sound design canvas and MIDI controller.   

Yes the GM tones can be used to play MIDI files. The results you get from these depends largely on the source MIDI file.. some are much better than others. However, the real power of the PX-5S is using the 256 poly and hexlayers to split and layer up to 14 sounds at once across the keyboard. Believe me when I say: "You ain't heard nothin' yet!". The sound designers have made some amazing Stage Settings so far, but there is some amazing potential for evolving soundscapes, "song ready" arpeggios splits orchestral cross layers. 

 

Scott , i´m definitely talking about external MIDI-devices like Sequencers/DAW , so the poor sequencing functionality of PX-5s is not needed .

You´re (all) always talking about PLAYING files ? This is the same difference as your example PX-part IS NOT midi-channel .

But this simplifiing assertion is not correct : because of a tone-generator is ALWAYS and ONLY controlled by midi-orders .

Advanced features are mostly system-exclusive or N-RPN .

Lets have a look on polyphony : one hex-layer use and needs 6 oscillators . Implemented effects are using additionally oscillators .

How many voices needs a piano player if he is playing a little bit quicker than a beginner ?

THINK One piano string sounds much more longer than the key-note is on ! Without reverb or/and delay .

I´m not a pianoplayer , but i´ve seen (on video) piano players they play so fast , that you hardly can follow his fingers .

How wonders that middlepriced stagepianos (kawai , etc.) are all at 192-polyphony . Ten fingers needs on hex-layers minimal 60-notes at one time . If you use chorus reverb and delay (so i think as in the most preprogrammed settings in PX-5s as in all keyboards) 192-polyphony

is not so much that you can jubilee about this "incredible" sound-capacity .

So how much is remaining for the channel/part 5-16 ? How much oscillators are needed for ONE voice .

If you play on "melody-voices" three simple chords and some pumping rhythms or noteincreasing arpeggios - how much oscillators are leaving

for the pianoplayers ? Simple mathematics : nothing .

 

YES , some hexsynths sounds good , all shaped with 7-point-shapes , but whats with the other voices from part 5-16 ?

The editing possibilieties are low down as an cheap casio or medeli keyboard .

So the sound is coming down to earth .

 

YES , its an amazing white-blue designsynth ... take pardon synthsound-playkeyboard , which may look nice on stage or at barbecue ,

but has nothing to to with a professional synthesizer . The cheapest synthie has 16 parts on 16 channels . Each part is fully editable like each

other . Most manufacturer using two oscillators per part on 128-polyphony . This concept results in 64-polyphony without any effects .

Nothing for pianoplayer who would hear ALL his played keys.

 

So SCOTT , i will ask you : WHAT DO YOU THINK

what is the concept of casio behind this "thing"  ?

This simplified 14-part-ROMpler and high-tech-synth .

 

Who should buy this "thing" for what reason? For whom it was made ?

[Choppin]

@ultra.klick

Do you own the Px-5s?