Let's build an XW2!

[AlenK]

Fans of the XW synths (need I say that includes myself?) have been waiting ages to see a successor model or two: an XW2 if you will. I think Mike Martin would like to see a successor too. The MZ-X500 is as close as we have seen but it's really a synth in arranger clothing. I am thinking of a synth in synth clothing. But it is up to Casio Japan to make it happen. Still, we can list what we would like to see in an XW successor, just in case Casio Japan is actually planning one and haven't yet nailed down the feature list.

 

Here's my desired feature list and predictions for it:

 

- Mainly metallic blue in color like the PX-560 and the MZ-X500 (I personally like that color) with black and silver accents. But whatever the color scheme it should be very professional looking. 

- At least one of the models (if there IS more than one) should come with a 76-key keyboard. Aftertouch would be nice but we probably won't get it. (😢)

- At least as many knobs and sliders as the current XW models, although I hope for more knobs (six would be nice).

- A 5.3-inch color touchscreen

- No speakers but it may/should have the "iPad" shelf. That was a seriously good idea.

- It will accept a foot-switch and an expression pedal.

- It should have touch pads like the ones on the MZ-X models, at least eight but preferably 16.

- Sound-wise, it will have the newest Hex Layer engine that is in the MZ-X500. Maybe even an improvement on that, such as allowing PWM or allowing sync between oscillators under certain conditions, but that's just wishful thinking.

- It will have the improved drawbar organ of the MZ-X models. Hopefully, It will be even better, with no need to add a Ventilator to get an authentic B3+Leslie sound. (The rotary speaker effect in the MZ-X models is better than the one in the XW-P1 but from the few reports I have read it could be better still.)

- All the AIX-based PCM tones from the CT-X models will be included, complete with articulations, and many more.

- The XW solo synth will be beefed up to rival the better virtual-analog synths in sound quality, largely free from aliasing and the zipper artifacts caused by insufficient calculation precision. The Total multimode resonant filter should have selectable 2-pole and 4-pole responses.  

- It will have the XW's step sequencer, but that should allow up to 64 steps in each pattern, as well as a MIDI recorder (16+1 track linear sequencer), the latter the same as found in the MZ-X models. These should be able to work together somehow, e.g., allowing the linear sequencer to start, stop and select step sequencer patterns. 

- It will have an audio recorder feature.

- It will have a programmable arpeggiator and it should allow up to four of them simultaneously like the PX-5S. 

- It will have a phrase recorder. Again, it should allow up to four simultaneous like the PX-5S. 

- It should include sampling capability, even better than what is in the MZ-X500. You shouldn't have to decide between having Hex Layer and drawbar organ (P1) versus sampling (G1).

- It should allow up to four parts to use the solo synth, Hex Layer or Drawbar Organ engines. 

- Like the PX-5S it should allow at least four parts to have dedicated insert effects. Eight parts would be preferred. These insert effects and the global effects should use the latest algorithms Casio has developed. 

 

Note that none of the above features require truly new development (aside from aftertouch and maybe an improved Leslie effect). They have all appeared in recent Casio models. Of course, integrating them would require a lot of design work. But that's what they pay engineers to do. 

 

So, what would YOU like to see or think will appear in an XW successor, assuming Casio has any intention of doing one?

[XW-Addict]

32 or 64 steps arpeggio.

Two insert FX per zone or one single combined like the XW.

3 stage assignable cc for controls vs 2 which still good but 3 nicer. Potato patato.

6 simultaneous arpeggio vs 4.

Two arpeggio per hexlayers or assignable.

2 reverb per zone. Or fine tuning each hex or tone.

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

It will cost 2000 dollars-if it ever happens.

 

And add to the product line, I've said it over and over-

 

1) midi wind controller (s) they did already with the Casio horns....there isn't much competition and they must still have the patents and designs, the Akai usb are not good, only the Yamaha has a more authentic mouthpiece/reed design 

2) a true table-top synth similar to the Roland MC series or Yamaha RS7000 or RM1X-again no competition.

3) Miniature full-blown synth with arranger functions, sequencer, arpeggiator etc-like the Yamaha QY series-again no competition-they stopped making these years ago.

4) How about taking a look a the Pearl Malletstation and Malletkats, which go for extraordinary prices and are hard to get-I bet Casio can beat those too, I'd buy one -I'm a mallet player.  And finally....

5)-what happened to the Casio midi guitars? I see these used on eBay for huge money-again not too much competition, I think only Roland had patents for the midi guitar conversions aside from Casio.

 

 I sense there is a new wave of young musicians who are just discovering these older products, and newer-it may not seem like too much of a market, but I bet if Casio produced any of these, it would encourage young musicians who might not be able to afford the more expensive alternatives-look at the keyboards and what they've done-and this may be where the future is. I know for a fact the technology has definitely been used in music education and is gaining ground. I had 2 Casio keyboards, a digital drum kit, several guitars, a few simple mallet instruments and and found it limiting to have to use brass and woodwind instruments only when digital alternatives would have helpful. Most music ed budgets outside the big marching bands have a limited budget. I see the Chinese manufactured brass and woodwind are cutting into that market with pretty decent quality, I have a soprano sax that is amazingly good and cost less than 300 US dollars-why not go digital and try to compete price-wise for the education market? 

 

And yes the above AlenK XW2 sounds like I'd sell my XW-P1 for that one. And finally-turn the PX5s/560 into one combined fantastic 88-key workstation to compete with the Korgs, Yamahas and Rolands-if Casio came in anywhere under the price of say a full-blown Montage, there would be buyers-I can think of one, me! The 560 is so close to being a perfect workstation but has some serious limitations for professional work although for covering a live gig I have no complaints-except put better felt strips to keep the keys quiet and make it more comfortable for fortissimo playing-one of the reasons I've had to add felt to 4 Casio keyboards-the XW, the PX350 and now the PX565. Admittedly I play every day-and pretty hard, but given my 560 was new, it only took about a year to start feeling and hearing the felt being too compressed. part of the reason is the design of the metal fulcrum endpoint hammer-it is very narrow and quickly indents the felt-if the footprint were even a tiny bit wider (millimeters) would probably solve that problem on every Casio that uses the same design. I'm sure it would require re-tooling the manufacturing, but would provide a significant improvement-I would like to see if the newest PS series of slim pianos have done this. a slight re-engineering and the felts might last alot longer. Sorry to stray from the topic, but I know Casio pays attention, and the rest is up to Japan I would guess. 

[AlenK]

On 2/4/2019 at 8:35 AM, Jokeyman123 said:

It will cost 2000 dollars-if it ever happens.

 

I will have to disagree with that. If the Yamaha MODX can street for considerably less than $2,000 ($1,299 US for 61-key version and $1,499 US for 76-key version) then Casio can make an XW2 that would street for even less. For sure, it would likely cost more than the XW-P1 does (or the XW-G1 did) but there's plenty of demand for synths in the price range between the XW's low-end and the MODX's mid-range. 

 

BTW, the MODX is SERIOUSLY hot in Pro land. It would seem to offer almost everything a lot of players need for gigs. 

[Shad0wfax]

I agree that the MODX is a seriously good synth; awesome value for money! It has all the sounds and most of the capabilities of the Montage, but at half the price.

 

In fact, I was already saving for a Montage when the MODX come out. As soon as I read the specs and I watched some reviews, I sold my MOXF and I got a MODX :)

 

Casio's CT-X line is also excellent in terms of value for money, as it is the MZ-X300 which can still be purchased in some stores for as little as 300 Euro.

 

IMHO many people would be interested in a new Casio synth which included real PD/iPD synthesis and compatiblity with the patches from the CZ/VZ series, as Yamaha did with the Montage/MODX. At least I would ;)

[sslyutov]

4 minutes ago, Shad0wfax said:

I agree that the MODX is a seriously good synth; awesome value for money! It has all the sounds and most of the capabilities of the Montage, but at half the price.

 

In fact, I was already saving for a Montage when the MODX come out. As soon as I read the specs and I watched some reviews, I sold my MOXF and I got a MODX

 

Casio's CT-X line is also excellent in terms of value for money, as it is the MZ-X300 which can still be purchased in some stores for as little as 300 Euro.

 

IMHO many people would be interested in a new Casio synth which included real PD/iPD synthesis and compatiblity with the patches from the CZ/VZ series, as Yamaha did with the Montage/MODX. At least I would

Can you confirm that MODX has only 4 keyboard controlled channels, the rest can be controlled  from the external source?

[mike71]

32 minutes ago, Shad0wfax said:

IMHO many people would be interested in a new Casio synth which included real PD/iPD synthesis and compatiblity with the patches from the CZ/VZ series, as Yamaha did with the Montage/MODX. At least I would

I think is becaus the old school synth sounds are again hip. There is a comeback of modular synths, and of coure Moog is back...

Having a phase distortion synth engine will be interesting for a lot of people. Hex layer synth is cool and one could do a lot of interesting sounds, but for instance lacs hard sync and ring modulation between oscillators.

 

[AlenK]

1 hour ago, Shad0wfax said:

IMHO many people would be interested in a new Casio synth which included real PD/iPD synthesis and compatiblity with the patches from the CZ/VZ series, as Yamaha did with the Montage/MODX. At least I would

 

Oh yeah, that would please a lot of people, myself included. I would think CZ (PD) compatibility would be more popular than VZ (iPD) but if they can do both, why not? However, I didn't include any of that in my list because, frankly, I don't expect it to happen. Casio has had plenty of time to release a hardware synth that includes PD and/or iPD synthesis but so far all we have seen is a CZ iPad app. But we can hope, right? 

[Shad0wfax]

2 hours ago, AlenK said:

 

Oh yeah, that would please a lot of people, myself included. I would think CZ (PD) compatibility would be more popular than VZ (iPD) but if they can do both, why not? However, I didn't include any of that in my list because, frankly, I don't expect it to happen. Casio has had plenty of time to release a hardware synth that includes PD and/or iPD synthesis but so far all we have seen is a CZ iPad app. But we can hope, right? 

I'm not thinking in a mere re-edition of classic PD/iPD synthesis, but more like an "updated" version (as Yamaha did with the FM-X engine, which is much more advanced while retaining compatibility with classic FM synths). That is, adding more waveforms, filters, and so on, and also multi-timbral capabilities and much more polyphony (128 or at least 64 voices and 16 parts). That would be really cool.

[Chas]

I concur with AlenK's suggestions in his initial post, as well as other's suggestions as to what an XW2 should have. 

 

Additionally, I would like to see the following added:

 

• A real analogue resonant filter option. Casio already have patents for their own (legendary) FZ series analogue filter, along with the filter fitted to their HT range. We can dream of 8 individual filters, though even a single paraphonic global analogue filter would work wonders, especially in solo synth mode.
• Improved/ smoother resonant digital filter(s) with double the steps (256 rather than 128) to avoid audio stepping.
• A resonant digital filter in Hex/ Drawbar mode. This SHOULD, and COULD have easily been a feature in the XW-P1, as AlenK showed us by using the Wah DSP.  All it needed was the option to add an envelope/ LFO, and triggering options, and it would have given a classic filter for those modes. This could even have been implemented via a firmware update...
• G1 style solo synth controls, preferably with additional controls to cover more real time tweaking.
• CZ Phase Distortion mode - that would also accept CZ patch data. This could also be expanded to offer more features over the original CZ's, and real time parameter controls.
• G1's sampling engine.

 

Hoping that maybe Casio will develop and release a successor to the XW-P1/ G1, though it's not currently looking that likely.

 

 

 

 

[Tom banjo]

LED meter on the inputs  or outputs would help me,

[sslyutov]

4 or more arpeggio engines.

Scenes (8+).

 

Super Knob 🆒

 

Sampler (but not audio) - MIDI sampler.

[Tom banjo]

I am not sure about this being a newbie, but last night I wished I had copy and paste on envelope settings

[XW-Addict]

A seamless switching function for pedal to advance a scene or stage assignable by how much.

Or a way to define which and how many zone to turn on and off by pedal. 

Like the old synths a "Print" of the envelopes on the keyboard and what not as a quick visual reference.  

[sslyutov]

Updatable firmware which could change the UI and available features.

Downloadable sound libraries from amazon.

[XW-Addict]

13 minutes ago, sslyutov said:

Updatable firmware which could change the UI and available features.

Downloadable sound libraries from amazon.

What! amazon why? 🤨, 

UI change no never that a nightmare. 

[sslyutov]

Firmware with the ability to extend(change) UI is a very powerful option.

If you do not like Amazon, it can be anything else. I believe it is just convenient to buy sound libraries in the convenience store

[Jokeyman123]

Years ago, Peavey promised to create a synthesizer workstation that would be able to change the entire synthesis method in software-through disks. I know, I had a DPM-2 and DPM-3 for awhile. it never happened. Wasn't enough profit or interest I guess. Too bad, it is an interesting idea, but then with vst's in software-entire synth models are available for just about anything-and many of us just end up owning several different synths anyway, so I'm not sure the idea of changeable operating systems would catch on. it's taken years for Linux to evolve to an operating system many can now use for music with the same Intel or AMD hardware-so software approaches already exist-just not in any keyboard workstations. And honestly, I haven't heard any tone generation system that has presented any quantum leap in what i actually hear when I press that key-including granular, FM+, patch synths (can get pretty strange) or anything else. Even my old FM SY77 hasn't been completely tapped as far as sound design, and this thing makes sounds that will give you nightmares as far as evolving and insane sounds. I've heard the Korg Prophecy, most of the Rolands, Yamaha EX 5/7 which uses multiple sound design access. Even if I had one workstation that could morph from one design to another, I'm not sure i could create more earth-shattering sounds than have already been created, although I guess it's possible. 

[XW-Addict]

1 hour ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Years ago, Peavey promised to create a synthesizer workstation that would be able to change the entire synthesis method in software-through disks. I know, I had a DPM-2 and DPM-3 for awhile. it never happened. Wasn't enough profit or interest I guess. Too bad, it is an interesting idea, but then with vst's in software-entire synth models are available for just about anything-and many of us just end up owning several different synths anyway, so I'm not sure the idea of changeable operating systems would catch on. it's taken years for Linux to evolve to an operating system many can now use for music with the same Intel or AMD hardware-so software approaches already exist-just not in any keyboard workstations. And honestly, I haven't heard any tone generation system that has presented any quantum leap in what i actually hear when I press that key-including granular, FM+, patch synths (can get pretty strange) or anything else. Even my old FM SY77 hasn't been completely tapped as far as sound design, and this thing makes sounds that will give you nightmares as far as evolving and insane sounds. I've heard the Korg Prophecy, most of the Rolands, Yamaha EX 5/7 which uses multiple sound design access. Even if I had one workstation that could morph from one design to another, I'm not sure i could create more earth-shattering sounds than have already been created, although I guess it's possible. 

Earth shattering sounds I've heard that many times said.

Leaves me ponder how that even applies to synths. 

Or any kind of keyboards. Could I make such a sound with hexlayers. 

 

Thought about this deep and long and the only thing i could think of.

Is time , width and frequency  that is the most basic of sounds.

 

In my kid years my parents would play a record can't remember from whom. 

that record began with a gush of wind and a approaching storm and a voice 

over saying stuff mean while the storm became less. It went from a storm 

and quietly down to earth tree tops a wind through the leaves while the crackling

of the branches brought you slowly to wear things where going until the sounds 

of birds chirps and the way the wind flows on lower ground ,When you actually

felt like you've been brought  flying and stood right back on the ground. 

 

Followed by an eerie choir chanting this reminded me of the classic movies

like Mozes on the mounted receiving the stone tablets or Ben Hurr etc. 

 

To me hearing what sounded like a stage play but in song form that was it. 

If i remember that song I will post it. But in a sense music from the seventies 

that was something you've felt right inside it compelled so much other then jumping

up and down on a floor doing crazy.  But hea i'm not judging the signs of times to music. 

 

[sslyutov]

This is slightly different than what I meant.

Changing the sound engines just by updating the firmware - I am not sure that such option is available at all.

Updating of functionality - for instance adding new scales/tunings(specific for certain regions ) or extend transport feature with additional functions( which needs to be reflected in the UI) 

That I think would be nice.

 

I have a positive experience in this area with Montage.

You can easily see the list of differences between original firmware revision 1.0 and 2.5. This list includes not only fixes but new features as well.

I do like the idea of getting newer features which may become available with the later (2 or 3 years) releases on the same model of the instrument.

 

[Jokeyman123]

Absolutely for firmware-I've been asking for some new features here for the PX560 for awhile-even though there have been a few firmware revisions, I'd like to see a few additions to the sequencer functions-nothing major-as some have already mentioned, looping envelopes could make for more interesting synth programming. There are many basic envelopes in the PX560 already, accessible through the hex layer functions-Brad already detailed that for me. I'd like a cut and paste function in the midi recorder, with the ability to take a section of a recording and cut and paste it to another section, and duplicate it 2-3-4 or more times, as i can do with most of my machines with midi sequencers built in. Currently, I can only copy an entire recording in one pass, not distinct sections by measure. In the XW-this is accomplished somewhat by using the chain function-which allows for taking individual collections of patterns, and chaining these together continuously, a very nice feature for creating extended pieces. I have managed to use punchin/out with the PX560 recorder to achieve a kind of cut and paste-at least for blank numbers of measures in order to add a blank section to an existing recording at the end or beginning of something already recorded in order to add to it. Not quite cut and paste, but ....

[mike71]

edit

[sslyutov]

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[Brad Saucier]

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Just adding my lines.  Not sure why we're doing that, but I'll join in.  😀

[XW-Addict]

FM is getting popular again it always were. A few more samples or a way to add DSP driven by phase distortion would be awesome.

 

____