Discussing the Casio PXS3000 and Review | NAMM 2020

[kybdsammer]

Here is ThePianoforever PX-S3000 discussion and brief review at NAMM 2020.  He does a brief demo of the piano by playing Beethoven's 3rd movement of the Moonlight Sonata.  In addition to the speakers in the back, there are two slotted ports in the front just above the keybed.  They are more subtle and located on the left and right side, but they are there and project some sound toward the user. 

 

He plans to do a more extensive review within the next 10 days or so.

 

 

[kybdsammer]

Here is his full review of the PX-S3000.  I wish I could say it is a mostly positive review, but I think it is important to have open and honest discussions about the keyboard even if we may not agree on some things.

 

He spends a lot of time talking about how the black keys on his keyboard have a noticeably lighter weight or action than the white keys.  I am curious to know what other PX-S3000 owners think about this and what your thoughts are about your keyboard action.  Is this a noticeable issue on your keyboard?  Is there any possibility of a defective unit that he reviewed? 

 

As a PX-S3000 owner myself, I have not noticed this disparity between the black and white keys on my keyboard.  I've played a variety of pianos and keyboards (weighted and non-weighted) for over 40 years.  I do notice the heavier feel on the PX-S3000 as you play farther back on all the keys in general, but I always knew it would be different from a real piano where the feel is more balanced from the front to back of the keys.  Due to the keyboard's compact design (which I really appreciate), I've accepted this and have adapted quickly to it to the point where it doesn't bother me at all for the type of music I play.

 

If you have other comments about his review, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

The same physical action is used on PX-S1000, PX-S3000, CDP-S100 and CDP-S350.   This is the first time I've heard anyone say anything about a difference between black and white keys on any of these models.  Bottom line, don't take anyone's word for it either way. Try it for yourself and decide.  If you can't find one in a physical store to test drive, purchase from an online retailer that's well known for taking returns.  It's the best advice I can give. 

[Bobbo]

After seeing this review, I tried to observe on my PX-S3000 the two keyboard action issues the reviewer discussed and compared that to what I observed on my acoustic piano. 

 

I did notice that the black keys, or at least some of them, take a lighter touch than the white keys, but the difference seems fairly minor -- certainly not as much of a difference as the reviewer complained of.  I did find the weight of the black and white keys to be equal on the acoustic piano.

 

The heavier touch required as one moves toward the back of the keyboard is a known issue with the PX-S3000 (and again, it doesn't exist on the acoustic piano), but I found that the difference is not noticeable over most of the distance from the front to the back.  Only the last half-inch or so gets markedly heavy.

 

So bottom line, the keyboard action is not a problem for me.

[HELVETIA]

sometimes  reviewers just want to find something they think is bad while they are liking an other brand better  or just for their ego  

don't bother

[Bobbo]

Oh, one other thing the reviewer complained about is the way the sustain pedal included with the PX-S3000 tends to slide away from one's foot.  This is pretty minor, but in case anyone else can benefit from this:  I solved the problem by applying double-sided tape, also known as carpet tape, to the bottom of the pedal.

[kybdsammer]

Thanks for all of your comments.  James posted a follow up on his review and used weights to prove his point.  I did a similar test (due to my inate curiosity) on my keyboard and confirmed his findings.  I stacked coins to simulate his test since I don't have precision weights.  I then weighed them on my kitchen scale.  The result from my keyboard was roughly 50g (10 nickels) to move the black keys and about 10g more to move the white keys.  I can respect his observations and opinion based on his experience and preference for piano-like action.  At the same time, online reviews (positive or negative) are opinions and only part of the process of doing your due diligence to determine if a product is right for you.  What may not be recommended by one person may be highly recommended by another, and each opinion may be totally appropriate depending on what is important to the individual.

 

For me, the slight difference in action does not bother me (I hadn't even noticed that much prior to watching the video).  Yes, there is room for improvement like everything else, but the PX-S3000 is still an excellent product and checks off a lot of what I value in a keyboard including a really outstanding piano sound, portability, compactness, and a blast to play.

[DeltaJockey]

Sounds a bit like a storm in a teacup😁 I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I see he mentions he's been playing piano for about 14 years, and with his experience he noticed the problem.

 He also references the issue to a well regulated acoustic action. Trouble is, in order to be a well rounded pianist, you have to have the experience handling most actions that are not recently well regulated, and often vary differently from piano to piano, with sometimes random keys on a given keybed perceptively different to each other.

 

As I mentioned in my own thread, I find great value in playing a range of actions, and like many of us, have no problem if the 3000 action has any inconsistency.

 For all we know, this may be part of the smart scaling feature, as there is a lot of merit in the psycho acoustic feedback tricking your brain into what the hands are feeling.😀 

 

Though I don't consider myself a particularly accomplished player, I have been playing keys for about 56 years.

I think it's a bit sad the people on youtube have left comments about reconsidering even buying one now, over a technicality, that may only have relevance to a small minority.

 

[Joe Muscara]

2 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

I think it's a bit sad the people on youtube have left comments about reconsidering even buying one now, over a technicality, that may only have relevance to a small minority.

Really. There are lots of players who have tried the new action and really like it. I think some of the more famous players have been mentioned elsewhere when it came out. These players have been playing piano and keys for a long time as well.

[DeltaJockey]

I quite agree Joe, 

My point in that comment was that I was reading that people are making comments without actually trying it for themselves, based on technicalities someone else has provided, that they say make it a deal breaker. It's their loss as I'm sure if those people tried it they would come to their own positive conclusions, just as all the famous people you mention have said.

 

[Jokeyman123]

Based upon my constant playing-classic repertoire, jazz primarily of prior Casios-the 350, 560 and 575 all wonderful piano actions-I do not own the 3000 series but wouldn't hesitate to buy one if i weren't the owner of these 3 other Casios. i can't imagine how the action could be better than these-already immensely playable for extended periods. Different feel I would guess but then training on Steinways originally-not bragging, just what we had in the music department-I would also play friend's Hammonds when I had the chance-and spent many hours on the original Wurlitzer tine pianos-again courtesy of the music department that had the earliest models, complete with broken tines, particle board cabinets and wooden keys each one a unique feel in itself- then segued into whatever uprights I had to play wherever i was-complete with cigarette burned keys, collapsed keys and tuning that would make your hair go on fire! I agree, being able to be flexible enough to play a variety of key weights was most definitely part of my climb to the top...well at least to crawl out of the basement, and into the mothership.

 

[Mike Martin]

I'll just comment with this for now, a quote from photographer Scott Bourne:

 

Quote

"If photographers spent half as much time on the craft of photography and storytelling as they do on the photo  forums arguing about minor details in one camera over another; well the quality of photography worldwide would double."

 

[Brad Saucier]

I'll say it again and I'm sticking to my story.  Try it for yourself and you be the judge.  Don't take anyone else's word as the final one.  Your own judgement call is what matters in the end.  Playing a piano is not all about gram weights placed at one particular point on a key.  A lot more goes into it than a single measurement.  Casio has been building digital pianos for a long time.  They know a thing or two about them. 

[mike71]

On 3/3/2020 at 4:44 PM, Brad Saucier said:

Casio has been building digital pianos for a long time.  They know a thing or two about them. 

 

If one have to design a lightweight and compact digital piano, have to do some compromises.

Small means a short key and light means a lower inertia,

 

Personally I think that if Casio will make a stage piano with the same action of the Celviano Hybrid will have success on people with like a more piano like action, but not on people that will like a light keyboard.

 

Yamahe makes similar pianos on e with wooden keys an d one with lightweight plastic keys for a reason.

[john*]

 

The action/keybed on the S3000 is less than optimal.

The black/white key stats prove it, but it has always felt a bit off to me.

I love the concept, but from day one I was wondering about the weird black/white key disparity.

I wanted a light weight controller and the S3000 is almost great.

I love the small profile and light weight.

 

Not good for the studio if you are looking for a well balanced controller keyboard.

 

Good for a live gig if you are wanting to play the sounds.

[john*]

Beyond that, the organ sounds still don't have a Leslie switch.

Not so good for a live keyboard.

I know I can go in and mess with settings, but this should be a no brainer.

 

[Brad Saucier]

1 hour ago, john* said:

The black/white key stats prove it,

 

Which stats are you referring to?

[Brad Saucier]

1 hour ago, john* said:

Beyond that, the organ sounds still don't have a Leslie switch.

Not so good for a live keyboard.

I know I can go in and mess with settings, but this should be a no brainer.

 

 

Knob function is controlled by the registration currently in use, rather than the tone currently in use.  You can store a registration where knob 1 controls rotary speed.  That makes it quick and easy to call up an organ tone and have knob 1 ready for switching rotary speed.   Jump to about 13:00 into the video below to see how it's done.  

 

's

 

[central616]

I don't think that the weight difference on the keys is a real issue. I mean, an accomplished classical pianist would not buy this keyboard, and probably he or she wouldn't even buy a digital piano. I tested the PX-S3000 and the difference in weight is noticeable. It was probably a mistake from Casio to compromise the action in favor of the visual look, but is still a great board for the public it's aimed.

[Trooplewis]

I have had my PX-S3000 for about a week now, and use it 100% as a piano keyboard (at least for now).

I seriously worried that I had made a big mistake when I found the negative reviews about the black vs. white key weighting.

 

In reality playing the thing, my fingers can't tell a difference, and the black keys don't seem to play any louder than the white keys.

My only prior experience on a keyboard has been on acoustic pianos (the last 25 years being a Baldwin Acrosonic spinet). The PX-S3000 sounds better and plays easier than my Baldwin.

I couldn't be happier with it!

[Daniel Weltlinger]

I really have to say that as much as this keyboard is not up to par for guys like ThePianoforever who are very super particular, it's to be blunt completely over the top his whole criticism of the PX S3000. I've just joined this forum, and looked up a lot of material before purchasing this keyboard quite recently. If anything, it's blown my expectations away on a lot of levels. I would say that this is probably a one off keyboard, made especially for the 15th anniversary of the Privia series and really there are a ridiculous amount of possibilities with this keyboard it's actually quite mind blowing what it can do. I think the action is fine personally. There are a hell of a lot of options in terms of editing the sounds, action and feel of the piano sounds alone if one is a bit smart with the various settings on offer. A little tip for those looking for the nicest piano sound too..in my opinion personally the best sound is actually in the 'others' section - 342 GM Piano 1 - which is an absolutely beautiful piano sound to my ears. Settings wise you can always make the action harder, string resonance/dampening etc clearer. play around with the DSP settings etc to find pretty much exactly what you need. The possibilities are really endless. 

[Brad Saucier]

@Daniel Weltlinger Welcome to the forums! 

[Trooplewis]

8 hours ago, Daniel Weltlinger said:

in my opinion personally the best sound is actually in the 'others' section - 342 GM Piano 1 - which is an absolutely beautiful piano sound to my ears. Settings wise you can always make the action harder, string resonance/dampening etc clearer. play around with the DSP settings etc to find pretty much exactly what you need. The possibilities are really endless. 

 

Thanks Daniel, I had no idea that piano tone was there, and I have to agree it is a pretty nice, bright piano. I may leave that as my default!

What does "GM" refer to anyway?

[Brad Saucier]

General MIDI. 

 

https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/gm-level-1-sound-set

[Trooplewis]

1 hour ago, Brad Saucier said:

General MIDI. 

 

https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/gm-level-1-sound-set

 

Nice; I'm a Ford guy so I'm glad it didn't have anything to do with General Motors 🤣🤣