Sound on PX-560 is sour all of a sudden

[Stephen M]

Sound on PX-560 is sour all of a sudden and I don't know why, I thought maybe I hit a button while playing

• Get same sour sound from internal speakers and headphones
• It's set at 440.0 and I've performed a reset 😞 but it didn't resolve
• The needle on guitar tuner displays either flat or sharp on the E, A, D, G, B, D tones. Usually they are dead on correct with 440.0
• I believe the tone starts out correct but then flattens or sharpen quickly
• Overall speaker volume has decreased and have to turn the volume knob higher than usual.
• Also tried a lot of different tones, not just Grand Piano, but that's what I use the most. Tones are about off about a quarter step or more, not a full tone up/down
• I've shut off the two wheels on left side via the screen, in addition Temperament and Stretch Tuning but still same sound
• I can send an audio recording if need be
• I've had this keyboard for three years with no issues and I've never moved it or used for live shows elsewhere
• Same sour sound when playing a .mid file I recorded
• Firmware is up to date - 1.16

 

Thanks for listening,

Music on Piano

[Brad Saucier]

I think we'll need an audio clip of this.  

[AndrewL]

That sounds awful, like if the processor is failing. Make sure the power adapter is fine, some times low voltages can produce weird behaviors.

[Jokeyman123]

Very odd. Yes post an audio. How are the 3 control knobs working, as normal? And are the pitch and mod wheels behaving as these should before you disabled these? Can you control modulation and pitch relative to the out of tune notes, and is this happening across all octaves, skipping notes, or in a limited range?

[Stephen M]

Just as it suddenly started happening the problem stopped after I unplugged it for a few days and plugged it back in. Thus, it may have been a low voltage thing happening.

 

If it occurs again I will make a recording of what I'm hearing and make note of the settings and do as you suggest above with the pitch and mod wheels. It was most noticeable in the middle octaves with middle B the worst.

[Jokeyman123]

Sounds like leaving it off performed a "soft reset" that whatever software errors were being saved in electronics-memory, caps etc. discharged over time and corrected itself-let's hope it was a temporary software glitch but if it happens again, will need troubleshooting, even if just a rudimentary once-over by a tech, since if it is "only" a software routine error-something is causing it and will need to be examined and remedied.  

[Bellyman]

Probably not the issue but leaving the innermost wheel on the left cheek block (the one right next to the bender wheel) in a forward position can do some really strange things to the sound. It's easy to move and it doesn't move itself back to a neutral position like the bender wheel does.

 

Just throwin' that out there. Hopefully the original issue is long since solved.

[Brad Saucier]

Unfortunately an audio clip was never provided for this thread.  In my experience, words can never replace an audio clip.  

[Stephen M]

Hi,

• I was able to record the attached file "Casio PC-560 sour notes 10-13-2023" on my iPhone about a month ago of me speaking and then playing the note on the PX-560 "Grand Piano" tone (default)
• When playing the file, you'll need to turn the volume up high to hear each note and be able to evaluate
• To my ears I believe the tone starts out correct but then quickly flattens
• Firmware is up to date - 1.16

• I've tried unplugging the keyboard from the outlet and the plug to the keyboard then plugged them both back in into an empty outlet in another room with no improvement

• I've been playing for more than 20 years and had previously used a Roland JV-50 and a Roland Rhodes, and a Technics electric upright piano

 

Thank You,

Stephen M

[Brad Saucier]

Thank you for providing an audio clip.  

[Stephen M]

Thank you all for your help in trying to  resolve this issue. I've found a place that is an official servicer for all Casio keyboard and he is going to try and resolve. They will need to open up the keyboard and run diagnostic test(s).

 

I will post the outcome of this.

[Brad Saucier]

I listened to the audio clip.  I tried really hard to hear something unusual.  I didn't.  It sounds entirely normal.  

[AndrewL]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:10 PM, Stephen M said:

Sound on PX-560 is sour all of a sudden and I don't know why

 

If you directly record to a wav file on a pen drive and play it elsewhere, does it also sound bad? Do the demos also sound like that?

 

Just like Brad, I couldn't notice anything odd either in your clip.

Edited November 29, 2023 by AndrewL

[Stephen M]

Hi

 

Thanks for your feedback on this.

 

My piano teacher also listened and could not hear anything odd about the tones. She suggested I research  Equal Temperament versus Just Intonation to understand what may be happening to me and if there is anything I can do about it on the 560

 

Premise:

When using the piano sounds on the 560, some individual notes and chords such as F major in center of keyboard do not sound correct (or tight) to me, (i.e. sour) What  I hear is the tone a very fast wobbling back and forth, or shifting upwards and downwards after initial strike of key(s) and keeps occurring until sound fades.  This does not seem to occur on other sounds on the 560 such as strings or saw 

 

Equal Temperament versus Just Intonation

 

Equal Temperament

The piano is not naturally in tune. It is equalized amongst all of the keys. It’s a standardized tuning so that you can play in any key on the keyboard and it’s going to relatively make sense. Developed for instruments like the piano so they could be played equally well in any key, so it’s a compromised tuning and not a scientifically accurate sound tuning system. So for certain keys, if you have a really fine sense of ear, certain keys are not going to sound fully in tune.  Pianists develop a sense of tuning, a sense of pitch, i.e. some people have ‘perfect pitch’, being able to pick a note out of thin air. ‘Relative Pitch’ is when you have something to compare it to.

 

The opposite of Equal Temperament is “Just Intonation”.

 

“Just Intonation”:  A system based on the pure intervals of the harmonic series. In this system: 

• Intervals are derived from simple whole number ratios (e.g., 3:2 for a perfect fifth, 5:4 for a major third).
• Notes within a scale are tuned to these ratios, resulting in more consonant and harmonically pure intervals within that specific key.

Advantages:

• Harmonic Purity: Produces intervals that are consonant and pleasing to the ear within a specific key

Disadvantages:

• Key Dependency: Pure intervals in one key can lead to out-of-tune intervals when modulating to other keys.
• Inflexibility: Less practical for instruments that need to play in multiple keys.

 

Has anyone else experienced this phenomena on the 560 or other keyboards/pianos and are there any solutions or thoughts on this?

 

Thank You,

Stephen

[Brad Saucier]

Default temperament on the PX-560 (and most every other modern instrument) is EQUAL, since this is what most musicians are using in modern music.  

 

Like many other Casio Privia models, the PX-560 has a wide selection of alternative tuning temperaments.  You will find this in the system settings menu.  You will also find the temperament base note setting where you can adjust the key in which you're playing music in.  Hope this helps.  

[AndrewL]

On 6/9/2024 at 1:40 PM, Stephen M said:

She suggested I research  Equal Temperament versus Just Intonation to understand what may be happening to me and if there is anything I can do about it on the 560

 

If this is what you don't like about the sound, you will find the exact same issue in any other piano or keyboard, unless it's specifically tuned differently.

 

This slight out-of-tune issue is mostly noticeable with pure sine waves. Here's an example:

 

 

The first chord may sound fine to most, but slightly out-of-tune for the trained ear. The second one is perfectly tuned.

 

But if the tone is something much more complex, an instrument like a piano, strings, etc., plus the numerous notes that usually sound at the same time, it's very hard to notice or be bothered by this. Therefore, equal temperament is 99.9% of the time not a problem.

 

So, back to your issue... the million dollar question: if you configure the keyboard's temperament to Pure, is the sourness gone?

 

But let's not forget what you reported initially: this occurred "all of a sudden"!! This makes me think it's something else...

 

Edited June 15 by AndrewL

[Brad Saucier]

On 6/15/2024 at 12:21 AM, AndrewL said:

But let's not forget what you reported initially: this occurred "all of a sudden"!! This makes me think it's something else

 

We listened to the recorded examples.  It sounds like a brand new out of the box PX-560 that is functioning perfectly.  What changed "all of a sudden" is a mystery.  

 

Adding a video link worth watching regarding tuning....

 

 

[AndrewL]

On 6/15/2024 at 10:26 AM, Brad Saucier said:

 

We listened to the recorded examples.  It sounds like a brand new out of the box PX-560 that is functioning perfectly. 

 

That's right, and in that recording the notes are played one by one, so the tuning should not be related (even having perfect pitch I'd say).

 

Talking about tuning videos, for those who want to know more about the matter, let me include Adam Neely's (which initially covers the "432 Hz issue"):

 

 

 

And a short video explaining the matter:

 

 

Edited June 20 by AndrewL
Added videos.

[Stephen M]

Thank you for the video links and comments, all very helpful.  Now, thinking back to when this first started occurring "all of a sudden" is not long after I began learning, identifying and eventually repeating intervals vocally using Teoria.com.  Then practicing them vocally using the 560 keyboard as the source until they became ingrained in my head did I begin noticing  it.  I've since played on other keyboards, both electronic and acoustic ,and the sound is the same no matter the keyboard. There's not much I can do about it and just have to accept and move on.

 

I do love the 560 as when the mother board died last year I ended up buying another one,

 

Stephen