Is it OK to use lithium ion batteries?

[3x5]

When I was reading the manual for my Casiotone, it said I need to switch the settings with the function key depending on what kind of batteries I'm using. The choices were alkaline, and nickel-cadmium. Should I take this to mean I shouldn't use lithium ion batteries in this thing? If I can, what setting should I use?

[Brad Saucier]

To clarify, the keyboard battery settings are "alkaline" and "nickel metal hydride" (different than nickel cadmium).  Hydride based batteries are probably the the most common rechargeable AA size batteries out there.  I use them in my S1 and they work well.  I don't know if lithium ion based would work.  

[silent]

Lithium is fine if you treat them well. don't put them in things that could easily get damaged.

4 hours ago, 3x5 said:

When I was reading the manual for my Casiotone, it said I need to switch the settings with the function key depending on what kind of batteries I'm using. The choices were alkaline, and nickel-cadmium. Should I take this to mean I shouldn't use lithium ion batteries in this thing? If I can, what setting should I use?

 

[3x5]

Thanks for the replies. @IrreverentHippie, I'm not sure I understand your reply. I would only be putting them in my Casiotone.

 

Also, if I put these batteries in, should I set my keyboard to the 'Nickel metal hydride' setting or the 'alkaline' setting?

[Brad Saucier]

Neither setting is designed for lithium ion batteries. 

[Jokeyman123]

lithium ion-I did not know there were 1.5V lithium cells that match the size of a typical AA battery. Do you mean these?

 

https://www.amazon.com/TENAVOLTS-Rechargeable-Batteries-rechargeable-electrical/dp/B07HQ7QV7W?th=1

 

This looks like a step up in technology-I've used lithium ion in my R/C hobby for a long time but at the standard voltage of 3.7V per cell, the same chemistry used in laptops (inside the containers are 18650 lithium ion cells 3.7V apiece and with protected regulated circuits-also hobby drones, helis, planes and cars-and these new 15V cells are "protected" which is really good. I don't know though-I'd still not use them in a keyboard not designed for these. If these blow-it would be a catastrophe, I've deliberately ignited lithium ions in an outside controlled environment to see for myself-its like setting off a small incendiary bomb. Lithium burns white-hot and gives off amazing amounts of noxious gases if the battery blows. it certainly will take your keyboard with it. I might test these on something more disposable first-are getting good reviews on A****n. Lithium ion can run pretty hot. I use the 3.7V in CREE flashlights designed for lithium-ion, and if left on for even 5-10 minutes, can get dangerously hot to handle risking explosion. I am careful to only leave these on for a minute or 2 at a time, and still makes me nervous. I wonder if these cells have the same characteristic-you do not want a cell running hot inside a Casio keyboard-or any other closed space IMO.  I notice many of the reviewers use these in outdoor cameras-that says something.

 

One other thought-I've had lithium ion 3.7V cells suddenly go reverse voltage-I can't explain why this happens but it does. If this were to happen in a combined pack-say 4-6-8 cells together-it could overload the other batteries and cause an explosion, even if the batteries have protected circuits. Lithium-ions need to stay "balanced" if using more than one. Computer packs have dedicated circuits inside the packs to make sure the cells discharge and charge equitably-because it is dangerous if these don't. If one cell goes bad, it shuts off the entire pack-I know, I've taken some of these apart and salvaged the good 3.7v 18650's, I know how that works. Not recommended unless you are willing to take the risk-of blowing yourself up. i like to live dangerously-sometimes.

[Chas]

Considering how cheaply you can buy brand new AA alkaline batteries for these days, such as a generic 6 pack for $1.25 at Dollar (25) Tree and other such discount places. Plus the fact that modern keyboards draw so little power, I personally wouldn't consider using Li-ion batteries.  Firstly because of cost,  and secondly because of the higher risk involved if a Li-ion battery fails. It's one thing to use a Li-ion battery supplied by a reputable manufacturer with a branded device, it's another to use a generic Li-ion that you don't know if it's made to the same high standards. As Jokeyman says, if they go bang, they'll likely destroy your keyboard in the process. 

[silent]

3 hours ago, Chas said:

Considering how cheaply you can buy brand new AA alkaline batteries for these days, such as a generic 6 pack for $1.25 at Dollar (25) Tree and other such discount places. Plus the fact that modern keyboards draw so little power, I personally wouldn't consider using Li-ion batteries.  Firstly because of cost,  and secondly because of the higher risk involved if a Li-ion battery fails. It's one thing to use a Li-ion battery supplied by a reputable manufacturer with a branded device, it's another to use a generic Li-ion that you don't know if it's made to the same high standards. As Jokeyman says, if they go bang, they'll likely destroy your keyboard in the process. 

There are L-Ion/rechargable battery packs that are made specifically for certain keyboards

[Jokeyman123]

To make this perfectly unclear-there are "lithium" non-rechargeable AA's that have been around a long time-I've never really seen the advantage except for long-time usage low drain applications-wi-fi cameras etc. and I'm sure these would be OK for a keyboard.

 

  I also just found another interesting but vital statistic-studying these batteries more carefully-the rechargeable lithium-ions are rated at mWh-not mAh-meaning this is the rating for how long the battery may last depending upon use-not how much power it will put out over a period of use-very subtle but distinct difference. Why? Because according to many reviews-the rechargeable lithium-ions are not putting out as much power as NIMH's, alkalines or anything else. So the net effect-might only run as long as any other chemistry-maybe longer-but will be putting out lower power for that duration-i was about to put out about 40.00 for a set of these with a charger and decided against it after reading this. most battery-powered keyboards will need some juice-maybe more than these can supply. And if lithium-ions are drained too quickly-pop goes the weasel. No free lunch either-less power, shorter run times given everything else is equal.

[3x5]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I have some decent rechargeable batteries in my keyboard, from Energizer, and I find that my lights start flickering after using the keyboard on battery power, even in one sitting. So I end up keeping my keyboard plugged in most of the time. However, I have noticed that when I unplug it, the keyboard doesn't immediately go back to flickering, which leads me to wonder whether the batteries are able to recharge while inside the keyboard. If so, then that's great. My whole reason for asking about the l-ion batteries was that I didn't want to have to remove my batteries all the time and charge them outside the keyboard. Does this Casiotone recharge batteries? 

[Brad Saucier]

The keyboard can't recharge the batteries.  

[Sbc]

Energizer Ultimate Lithium is rated at 1.5V nominal, 1.75V max.

Alkaline is 1.5V nominal, 1.6V max.

NiMH is 1.2V nominal 1.42V max.

Rechargeable Lithium Ion AA is 3.6V nominal, 4.2V max, reduced to 1.5V through a circuit built into the battery cell.

 

Casiotone does not recharge the AA batteries.

 

With Li-Ion AA, I guess you could select Alkaline. But because these Li-Ion AA will maintain the voltage throughout most of its discharge state, the battery power indication will not be accurate.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Sbc

[David Holland]

I use rechargeable energiser lithium AAs as even the strongest alkaline batteries by the top brands last maybe one hour at best with my Casio PX S3000. The lithium last at least 4-8 hours, I’ve noticed it makes a difference how long the keyboard is on for, if I play half an hour once a day they’ll last for weeks but if I play for two hours straight it’ll be starting to give the low battery warning light and will die within ten minutes after that. But if you teak a half hour break then play again it’ll probably be good for an hour, so it’s risky for long gigs but handy for outside choir rehearsals etc of course you can always have a spare set of batteries to swap over. I wish they’d put rechargeable lithium built in like some cheap foldable pianos are doing now, that would be so handy