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PX330 Midi program change


supervivid

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Apologies if this has an obvious answer, but I've been poking around various Casio and other keyboard forums and haven't found it:  I have an iPad connected to my PX-330 and there's no question that MIDI data is flowing back and forth.  When I press the buttons on the keyboard to select different tones, I see the program change messages in various iPad apps that monitor MIDI data.  But when I try to send those same messages back to the keyboard in order to change the tone that will be heard when I play the keyboard, it doesn't work.  I've even tried raw midi, and while the Privia will take note on/off and a bunch of other stuff, it won't let me send program changes that take the place of pressing the buttons on the keyboard itself.

 

I'm hoping I'm missing something simple, because if the keyboard doesn't natively support this, that's kind of lame.  Anyone have any ideas?   I *don't* think this is an issue with the iPad or USB connection, as the problem seems to be specific to connecting to the Casio.  It works fine with other keyboards.

 

I saw a couple speculative comments on external forums about this maybe not being supported, but that would seem really strange.  Any insight is greatly appreciated!!

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Hello Supervivid, I have been experimenting with this, trying to send CC messages to the PX-350, which has basically same specs. I also can't get the PX to respond to most CC messages except pan, chorus and reverb depth although according to the MIDI specs, it sends and receives among other things program changes and most CC messages. 

 

I have contacted Casio tech support but have not gotten any response about this so far. I have tried "virtual midi fader" software, a Korg Nanokontrol which does power up through the USB thumb drive but got no response to anything I set up although this can be programmed with its editor and settings are saved internally, and an Alesis A25 controller through the DIN midi ports in back (this has both USB and DIN midi in and out) but again only managed to get access to reverb and chorus depth through the MIDI ports. i did discover that at least in the 350 I have to disconnect the thumb drive to use the MIDI 5-pin DIN ports.

 

I also found unless I select tones with the record function in the song sequencer, the PX will not receive program change messages with my software sequencers, I've tried several. There must be something we are both missing. Let me know if you get anywhere, I'll post same.  I'm trying to develop a PX 330/350 editor to access DSP settings especially for the DSP/eq/Leslie effects, volume settings and at least pan for the track sequencer and would like to be able to change these settings on the fly with an external controller like the Nanokontrol or Behringer. Others have been able to do this with other branded auto-arrangers such as Yamaha and Roland. it would also be much better to call up tones with a button or two (keypad entry) instead of scrolling through every tone like we need to do on the PX's.

 

I'm guessing the new high resolution MIDI spec Casio is using might have something to do with not being able to get response to program change and other CC messages. All I found out through Casio tech support- track numbers match MIDI channels with the song recorder but that's all and was no surprise. Can't send PM to Mike Martin anymore through this forum, I would think he might be helpful here and I can't seem to figure out how to contact him through his facebook page either.

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Thank you both for the quick responses - it's nice to see that this is an active forum and I appreciate the assistance.  Scott is correct, this turns out to be a case of RTFM, rather than read the received midi data and try to spit it back.  Jokeyman, I might have some good news for you.  Here's what I've discovered:

 

- I was previously triggering a program change manually on the keyboard and collecting the received midi data in an app on the iPad.  What I saw was MSB and LSB bank changes, a program change, and a couple other things that I wasn't sure what they were (I'm a MIDI beginner).  But all the params made sense in the messages I recognized.

- So what I was trying to do was send all of that data back to the Privia via an iPad app in order to trigger the very same program change without having to press the buttons on the keyboard.  Wasn't working.

- Per Scott's message, I looked more closely at the midi spec and immediately thought that maybe there's just too much "stuff" being sent back to the Privia and if I kept it simple, maybe it would work.

- So I stripped the raw MIDI I was sending down to just the MSB and LSB bank changes and then the program change.  It didn't work.  Then I tried pulling out the LSB message and just sending the MSB bank change and the program change.  Voila - it worked!

- But there are a couple other caveats: 

1) You have to also shut off Local Control in the MIDI settings on the keyboard, or it plays both the tone that was sent via MIDI *and* the tone that's set on the keyboard.

2) While this all works, it doesn't change what's visually displayed on the keyboard, via the LCD screen and red LEDs.  So you have to rely on your outboard MIDI app to tell you what tone(s) are actually selected.  I was hoping the MIDI messages would behave *exactly* like pressing the buttons on the keyboard, but they don't.  They set the right sound, but they don't visually change what's displayed on the keyboard itself.

 

But so far, so good - I'm 85% of the way to my goal of being able to play the keyboard directly, use its onboard sounds, but use a pretty cool iPad setlist manager app to control which tones are being used, based on what song we're playing.  I think with a bit more fiddling, I should be able to figure out how to tell it via MIDI to split the keyboard into two parts and set a different tone for the left hand.  Worst case if I can't, I can just hit the Split button on the keyboard, but I like the idea of doing everything through the iPad app - it'll be much easier to see under gig lighting conditions.

 

Jokeyman, let me know if this approach works for you on the PX-350 with whatever outboard controller you're using.

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OK, I just posted to someone trying to control volumes independently in a split of the PX-350. Strip LSB out-that's a big help. This means I will probably not be able to set up a hardware controller alone to do this if I can't edit and store sysex strings/commands in it. This may also be why PX-350 is not responding to other CC messages in software or hardware-thanks for the help, I will use a midi monitor and see what I can come up with. Korg's Nanokontrol editor doesn't have this kind of editing control. The Alesis A25 can, but it is fiddly-have to send each command separately not very elegant. I've gotten it to change reverb and chorus depth without any additional sysex commands. Again, without software to edit sysex commands guess my hardware control project will not fly.

 

There is a design program called simply "Ctrlr" (www.ctrlr.com) for Windows, Mac or Linux platforms (not iPad) which allows complete custom design of software front-ends to control anything MIDI which I have been studying. There are templates on the website showing what it can do. If I can develop the sysex programming chops I am trying to develop an editor for the Px-350/330 similar to the PX5S editor using ctrlr. All this may not apply to your goal so you have been more helpful to me than I to you. I owe you, thanks!

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Jokeyman, I'm requesting a bulk send/receive app for the MZ-2000 when you figure it all out.  LOL  

 

Seriously though, I wish I could help or understood any of this.  I really wanted to be able to transfer data to and from the MZ over midi.  I know just enough to read the midi imp pdf and see that it's likely possible but my head spins trying to make sense of it. 

 

Anyway....have you tried the MIDI OX program?   It may help.   

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2) While this all works, it doesn't change what's visually displayed on the keyboard, via the LCD screen and red LEDs.  So you have to rely on your outboard MIDI app to tell you what tone(s) are actually selected.  I was hoping the MIDI messages would behave *exactly* like pressing the buttons on the keyboard, but they don't.  They set the right sound, but they don't visually change what's displayed on the keyboard itself.

 

 

I'm wondering if the MIDI commands you are sending are simply changing tones within the registration and not an actual program change. Not sure if that makes sense, but think of it like changing the pages with in a book but the cover stays the same... the MIDI commands you are sending may just be changing the content not the actual program name/number itseld.

 

I am just thinking out loud here and what you are experiencing is exactly how it works.. my advice: Keep experimenting: Sounds like you have the right attitude about it and aren't afraid to dig in.. and you won't break anything!  :) 

Please let us know if you find any tricks so we can help the next person!

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I've just started scooping sysex data with Midiox and finding some interesting data, but still need more studying. I noticed changing chorus and reverb settings sends different sysex strings for each setting so output is there, it's input that still getting me stumped, the MIDI implementation shows its there. And I have sent from the Nanokontrol (and the Alesis A25 which is unique in that it has 5-pin DIN and USB MIDI in and out,)  directly connected to 1) PX-350  5-pin Din midi ports 2) USB connector on back panel and 3) even the thumb drive port in front hoping this might work but no response so far although the thumb drive USB does present power to the Nanokontrol. I'm still trying to understand how bank changes are set up for the PX, not sure have to spend more time with Midiox.

 

Scott-now I'm thinking, maybe some of the CC messages I'm sending are being recognized but only within registrations, I'll try that next, tried with song recorder in play and record but nothing there  And was able to continuously control reverb and chorus depth with the Alesis A25 analog controls so maybe that too is sending other CC changes but only recognized within registration memories I'll try that. I can read code out of Midiox with software sequencers to see what sysex strings are working into the PX, any software sequencer is setting volume levels per track so i know that works. If I can suss out sysex messages that work, I can write code into "ctrlr", design a rudimentary or not so rudimentary editor and (depending upon user rights and copyright) submit it here for PX-330, 350 and other Casio digital pianos for anyone interested. The MIDI specs seem similar enough. If Mike is reading this, any info will be greatly appreciated.

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Must be-I tried with 5-pidn din cable with a USB mini-adapter connected to a standard usb on the other end directly into the PX and nothing. You all must be right about host capability. there is an expensive solution I've seen somewhere-a host adapter box from somebody that creates host capability and uses USB to 5-pin din connections. Not sure its worth the expense-I remember it costing somewhere around 100 bucks. If i could find a less expensive hardware solution, I'd try it.

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Must be-I tried with 5-pidn din cable with a USB mini-adapter connected to a standard usb on the other end directly into the PX and nothing. You all must be right about host capability. there is an expensive solution I've seen somewhere-a host adapter box from somebody that creates host capability and uses USB to 5-pin din connections. Not sure its worth the expense-I remember it costing somewhere around 100 bucks. If i could find a less expensive hardware solution, I'd try it.

 

I think it's the iConnectivity  box you are referring to. Just one thing to check out that I haven't been able to confirm: I don't know if the $99 MIDI2 box has the host capability or if you need to pony up $250 for the MIDI4. Something to check into before buying...  

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Only thing I've found is the KentonUSB/MIDI host box but at a whopping 140-150 bucks not worth it just to add a few control features that might or might not work. One other thing I'm trying-supplying 5V power to the Nanokontrol (ruining another warranty but 20 dollars worth won't kill me) by modding a power connector. I've dissected the Nano already and it's a multi-layer PC board inside. Having difficult time locating power connection points since it's supplied through the mini-usb connector and this looks to be soldered in between layers of the pc board. It could work. So could a screen door in a submarine with the right mods. 

 

All I really wanted is level control and maybe quantize for the "song sequencer" without having to connect a computer and software for editing multi-track stuff but after all this trouble maybe that doesn't look so bad anymore. it is primarily a digital piano not a workstation and it does recognize all 16 midi channels. I haven't given up the idea of an editor though-being able to alter effects, eq. etc would be nice, like the PX5S even if done in software, but none of the Casio editing stuff is designed for the PX-150, 330, 350 series.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Still studying midi messages coming out of the PX-350 with Midi-ox when I get the time. Found only 2 more things might be helpful for people messing with splits and layers-in a split the left hand seems to always transmit on channel 3, right hand on any channel you set with the "function" midi menu buttons. Layer is the same. When in song recorder mode, no midi data goes out until it is recorded. This me I am thinking then that it will be impossible to control individual levels or DSP in real time as in the XW or WK models with the mixer function but I haven't given up....yet!


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  • 7 years later...

I’m new to using midi on my px-330.  So, I’m not sure how to describe my problem correctly.  But here goes…When I midi connect my px-330 to another keyboard (Korg Poly 61M) the only sound that is received is a piano sound.  When I make a preset change on the px-330 it still is the piano patch heard on the Korg.  It’s as if the px-330 only transmits the piano patch through midi.  Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks!

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