What is happening at Casio

[petersohn]

In one of the topics you wrote a few months back that there will be one more update to the MZ-X series and the sounds from the Aix series will be added. Update 1.60 appeared but there were no new sounds.  I understand that this key will not be developed anymore because its production is over.

[Chandler Holloway]

1 hour ago, petersohn said:

Yamaha and Korg offer a rich collection of styles for their clients. Observing the forum, I come to the conclusion that the company's policy boils down to the conclusion: you have Style Creator and videos on Youtube - you will do it yourself.

 

Tutorials on the Rhythm Creator and information on how to make Rhythm files on your computer have been frequently requested for a long time, which is why they were made a priority. I think it would be better to equip users with the tools and information they need to create/convert their own Rhythms rather than releasing an additional 50/100 Rhythms in an expansion pack and hoping that people will be happy with those extras.

 

It's like that old proverb: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." Releasing extra rhythms for one specific line of keyboards would be nice in the short term, but a full reference manual that teaches you how to make Rhythms for all Rhythm-compatible Casio keyboards will be a helpful tool for many years to come. Of course it would be better to have both of these things, but when time and resources to work on these projects are scarce, sometimes you can't satisfy everyone. That's not to say there won't be extra Rhythms released at some point, but I'm not aware of any such plans at the moment.

 

Hopefully now that more people are aware of the process for creating User Rhythms, more custom Rhythm files will start to be shared over in the downloads section. There are many talented musicians in this community, and I can't wait to see what they come up with.

[Jokeyman123]

Agee with you Chandler-anyone who would prefer an instant pack of usable rhythms just needs to look at the literally thousands of rhythms available from other companies, which with your very detailed description of how to convert and create to Casio rhythms can be made usable on not just the MZ-x series, but on many of the older and newer Privias, the older CTK and WK series, not sure about the CTX but I think so. Then I will be missing out on my individual creatve process-if I wait for Casio to do it for me which is one reason I like to "roll my own".  Most of the Yamaha style variations have been created by Yamaha musicians, not Yamaha and probably likewise Roland, Korg and Solton etc. Roland for example would get you more styles-but you would have to pay for rather expensive add-in cards for many of their instruments, not sure if the newest arrangers are the same.

 

I do not believe we have a dedicated "user style" section in our uploads for any (or all) of our Casios-several users have uploaded or created links to download some additional styles- as part of a post but might it be helpful to create a specific upload section for styles, whether in single  .ckf, .ac7 files or as z-packs as some of the Casios can work with-a collection of styles in one download-as a zip file to be uncompressed or as an already compiled Z batch file? Not sure which Casios can do that other than the ones I play-the PX560 can, the PX350 and older 575 can all do that and I have been experimenting with the same style variations on several of those to see what comes out.  Would this be something you or one of the other administrators would need to or be willing to do? If I were to post some style variations, I think it might get a little confusing as most of the uploads are tone variations or in the case of the PX5s, stage settings. Just saying......

[Chandler Holloway]

That's a good thought. I bet @Brad Saucier or @Joe Muscara would be happy to add a new section specifically for User Rhythms over in the Download section. I would think that because Rhythms are so widely compatible, you wouldn't need to make separate categories for Rhythms for each instrument (although I would encourage submitters to designate which instrument the Rhythm was composed on so others will know if they need to adjust the voice assignments for their particular model).

[Brad Saucier]

Up to this point, forum members have been using the specific model categories to upload rhythms, based on which model they are made for.  You'll find some AC7 rhythms under the CTK -WK section and probably a few others. 

 

Let's vote, who thinks we should organize all rhythms under a special "rhythm" category?  or continue using the current model specific categories?  

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks for considering. I cast the first vote, but then, I am I admit prejudiced!

[vbdx66]

Hi guys,

 

I personnally would favour a system where the rhythms have their own section, but are still classified according to keyboard range, i.e., a Rhythm section subdivided into CTK, WK, Privia, MZX and CT-X categories. I think it would be the best way for anyone to easily find precisely what he/she is looking for.

 

Since the whole purpose is of tweeting rhythms so that they will sound best on your own keyboard model, it would be counterproductive to mix all the rhythms in the same section.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Regards,

 

 Vinciane

[Chandler Holloway]

I think it would be better to keep all the Rhythms under one category in the Downloads section, but with the caveat that any submissions to the Rhythm category must include the model of the keyboard it was composed on in the title of the submission.

 

That way you can still search for your specific model within the Rhythm category if you want something you can easily import, but if you want to take a Rhythm meant for another model and tweak it for your keyboard's voice assignments, all the rhythms would still be in one place. Rhythms composed using the General MIDI voice assignments should also have "GM" in the title for similar reasons. 

 

I would also encourage submitters to upload in the .ckf format if they can because it's more widely compatible than the newer .AC7 and can easily be opened in the Rhythm Converter software for tweaking. I'm not sure if there's a way to convert .AC7 back into CKF for use in the IDES Rhythm Converter, other than the usual roundabout method of recording the Rhythm into MIDI and converting to CKF from there.

[Jokeyman123]

I like that idea Chandler-I don't think there will be too many rhythms submitted so one category might do it. and no, I have found no way to go from .ac7 back to .ckf and of course the opposite is doable-the PX350 for example will save a .ckf as an .ac7. And will be interesting to see thythms created for one Casio to try on others anyway. I'd hve to check again, but i think I had no trouble playing MZ-X rhythms on the PX560, didn't try on the PX350.

[funkycornwall]

Returning to my original query. There seems to potentially exciting Casio news coming up at the NAMM 2019 show. New Privia keyboards and let’s hope a pro performance keyboard. Maybe even the long-awaited follow up to PX-5S. Looking forward to finding out.

[SonnyDaye]

I’ve never understood why Casio “refuses” to make 76 (or 73) key versions of their hammer action keyboards! As I’ve said for many, many years, “They’d sell “MILLIONS”!”.

Maybe THIS will be the NAMM Show I’ve been waiting for? 🤞

[AlenK]

Actually, for a 76-key keyboard meant to play a variety of tones, not just piano, I would prefer a compromise action between a fully-weighted hammer action and an unweighted, so-called "synth" action. The gold standard in that direction is/was the 76-key "VPK" keyboard action used in the later Synclavier from NED. I believe this was the same action used in the Prophet T8. I have no personal tactile experience with that particular action but I have never heard anything but praise about it from people who have played it. Not going to happen, especially from Casio, but I can dream, right?

[MTapani]

Is there really a need for 76-keys hammer-action keyboard? Hammer-action means piano and piano is 88-keys. You need the full set of keys if you're serious about piano-playing. 

[SonnyDaye]

43 minutes ago, MTapani said:

Is there really a need for 76-keys hammer-action keyboard? Hammer-action means piano and piano is 88-keys. You need the full set of keys if you're serious about piano-playing. 

 

I disagree. If it is for home or studio, that makes sense. But....for the gigging musician 88 means more WEIGHT to carry and more SPACE needed in a car to transport it. With 76 you’re not giving up too many keys compared to an 88 (they DO make plenty of 61 key models - why not 76 or 73?)!

[SonnyDaye]

2 hours ago, AlenK said:

Actually, for a 76-key keyboard meant to play a variety of tones, not just piano, I would prefer a compromise action between a fully-weighted hammer action and an unweighted, so-called "synth" action. 

 

I'm only concerned with playing a board that sounds and FEELS like a piano.....not to play “a variety of tones”. But I DO understand the point you make.

[roncist]

In this days i have bought the yamaha P121 bk stage piano with 73 hammer-action keys. The simulated ebony and ivory textures on the casios stage pianos should be softer in my opinion.

Years before i used a studiologic acuna 73 masterkeyboard with hammer-action together with a piano expander GEM RX and Roland Mobil cube amplifier, and last year we had the Yamaha EW 300 Keyboard in use when we travelled to our families. Also when we have a choir performance outside (on a birthday) its nice to have a smaller and lighter real piano with good speakers (2 x 6 Watt - better more!).

A casio PX 160 with 73/76 hammer-action keys would find a market in my opinion.

[sslyutov]

On 12/3/2018 at 8:20 PM, skyy38 said:

 

Several years back, not only Mike Martin but Craig Anderton were just about gob smacked  ( translation "Whoa DUDE!" ) when I posted this little thing done ENTIRELY on a CASIO:

 

 

 

I don't quite understand what it proves. This can be done without any external instrument at all.  A computer internal sound card has high-quality sound for all instrument in an orchestra.
It could be done on PSR which cost $200-300.
I know for sure everyone makes it own chose. If you bought something that's the call. You can say it is the best since you made a responsive decision. But it is still subjective for everyone else.

 

Another approach is to go through specs and compare every feature one by one. It works for some characteristics, but It is not possible to compare different engines- SuperNatural vs AWM2 or FX-M or A.i.r. and vs acoustic 6'2'' or 9' Grand.
 

The bottom line for me, all brands make high-quality instruments.
There is a bias which puts one brand over another, for instance, I would not consider buying Alesis or Suzuki DP. But I know for a fact that Suzuki makes nice digital pianos with all GM instrument on board.
 

 

[anotherscott]

On 11/21/2018 at 7:48 PM, central616 said:

With the PX5s CASIO moved sucesfully to the pro market, but with the MZ-X I think they did the wrong movement. It's a good board, you can do almost everything yo want with it, but it doesn't outshine any keyboard in the market in the same price range

 

The main place where I think it falls down for pro use is in the MIDI funcionality. But I think it does outshine others in various ways. At its price, what else do you find that has 9-drawbar organ controls, built-in speakers (and pretty decent ones), arranger functions, (usually) seamless sound transition, touchscreen interface, custom sample loading, velocity sensitive trigger pads, 16-track sequencer?

Edited January 21, 2019 by anotherscott
expanded feature list

[oscar1]

The NAMM privia will be likely a replacement for PX160 with and this is a speculation on my part: 256 polyphony, the longer samples from px-870, newly developed keybed, touch button interface, bluetooth and it will stay in the same price range (which will be its major selling point)

 

Casio is still not in a pro market in general. The Privia is closest - a big music stores here may actually carry PX-5S or PX350 and you can probably order GP and AP series (but not on display) next to Yamahas P and Roland FP, but that is it. A music store would feel embarrassed to have any other casio next to MOXF, Montage, Rolands ....and in fact there is nothing in casio lineup for that market.

The MZ-X was somehow a shot at this mid-range workstation  but failed miserably because of the insane price/quality ratio. This should have been either half price keyboard if they insist on having the cheap casio keybed or then bundle semi weighted  Fatar and people will feel much differently. We are talking about price range of $1K and that is  a very competitive area. This is a world filled with MOXF, Korg Krome, Roland DS, and even the roland FA-06 or new MODX  is just few hundred bucks away from MZ-X. There is no way someone who walks into a music store with +$1K budget would end up with MZ-X500. It would be insane and probably the music clerk would beg him to change his mind.

 

I think casio is right to focus on privia and CDP range and then the low end AiX. The privias are good. Easily competitive with anything at the price. The keybed is good, the new one should be even better. The sound, especially the 2018 samples as seen on PX-870 is great and actually beats the Yamahas in that price. And people also talk about it. It is now a common knowledge that the PX are good keybeds and many people prefer them from the yamaha P. The new Privia slab should be even better and could send the yamaha P sales back.

 

Casio tried many times to build a higher keyboard. There was a MZ-2000 if anyone remembers which was aftertouch workstation with everything thrown in it, yet still looked like a darn embarasing home keyboard. There were the XW synths. But they always mess it up at the end by  cheapening some crucial part and having the kids-derived plastic keybeds. So maybe they should abandond the mid market altogether and stay in what they do well.

[Shad0wfax]

9 hours ago, oscar1 said:

The MZ-X was somehow a shot at this mid-range workstation  but failed miserably because of the insane price/quality ratio.

 

That's probably true, but you still can get a brand new MZ-X300 for about €300 and a MZ-X500 for about €500 in some stores, and IMHO this is seriously good value for money. But I mostly agree that paying around $1000 for a MZ-X500 when for about the same price you can get a Yamaha PSR-S770 is quite a nonsense.

 

In general terms, though, Casio is especially good in offering very good stuff for the money. I've got some "pro" gear in my studio, such as Yamaha MODX and Roland Integra-7, and honestly I was blown away by the sound quality and specs of the CT-X series, considering the price.

[anotherscott]

9 hours ago, oscar1 said:

We are talking about price range of $1K and that is  a very competitive area. This is a world filled with MOXF, Korg Krome, Roland DS, and even the roland FA-06 or new MODX  is just few hundred bucks away from MZ-X. There is no way someone who walks into a music store with +$1K budget would end up with MZ-X500. It would be insane and probably the music clerk would beg him to change his mind.

 

It depends what you need. Look at that list of features I posted, "9-drawbar organ controls, built-in speakers..., arranger functions, (usually) seamless sound transition, touchscreen interface, custom sample loading, velocity sensitive trigger pads, 16-track sequencer" and consider whether those models have those features... most have only one or two of those eight.

... MOXF had only the sequencer (though you could get sample loading with a $150 option)

... Krome has only the sequencer and touchscreen

... Roland DS has only the seamless transitions and sample loading

... Roland FA has only the sequencer and a more limited drawbar organ (no C/V, no real-time control), and more limited seamless transitions (doesn't work between studio sets, its equivalent of registrations)

... MODX (which didn't exist when MZ-X came out) is the most competitive,  it has touchscreen, seamless sound transition, custom sample loading, and arguably some semblance of drawbar organ, though that's borderline

 

A more esoteric feature that is useful to me is easy on-the-fly manipulation of which sound you're playing on either side of a split... including being able to change which sound it is without glitching your other-hand sound, and also easily be able to alter its volume and its octave shift. Very handy for live performance. Roland DS does it, none of the others do.

 

Of course, the others may have other significant features or sounds someone wants. I'm just saying that the MZ-X500 is functionally competitive. Personally, in a 61-key live performance board, I would definitely take it over a Krome or Roland FA. MZ-X500 beats them both in features I care about, while, at least for me, they have almost no capability that beats the Casio. The only advantage I give them is that they are available with more than 61 keys (obviously getting further from the MZ price) and that the Roland has a Sub Out. So let me turn it around, I've listed a bunch of MZ-X advantages, but why would you buy a 61-key Krome or a Roland FA instead of an MZ-X500?

[Jokeyman123]

For constant playing- much sturdier keybed is needed than the MZs, CTXs, the XW etc. unless you are only covering pads and other parts not needing much piano-stylistic playing,  based on older equipment I've used professionally that took alot of playing to start having problems. As far as weighted 76-keys, the Ensoniqs ran all of these with Fatar weighted sctions-still have my TS-12 and it weighs a ton, and the action is not as responsive as the Casio 88-key PX560 and 350 I play regularly-not terrible but the weight was awful-the TS12 weighs 55 pounds! As did the KT-76, KS-32 and MR76-carried the MR and KS around alot also 50 pounds but great keyboards for the time. And yes anotherscott, if i were looking for my first (or second) 61-key instrument the MZ-X would have looked much better, Roland spring keys are not all good-the RS70 was awful and the EXR keybed was pretty nice but the Rolands are always pretty costly-you would need 2 Rolands to cover the MZ-X I think, maybe 3! 

 

 Would there be a 76-key weighted action market-tough call, in a crowded market, especially since playing out pro, the 88-key Casios and others are easier to carry than many others already but there are no 76-weighted keyboards currently that I know of, could be something out there. I think Studiologic had one only as a controller, don't see that even any more. I can't see many selling unless the features were pretty outrageous compared to PX560, 5s and other brand 88-keys. Would be nice, but for players like me who already have invested in the 88-key versions, would have to go some with features to add another keyboard, certainly would never be a replacement for me unless there were huge additions to functions.  And the MZ-x prices did put me off, 800 is about as low as I can get here in the US. But then I have the XW.  Not much less than the PX560 and several hundred more than a new XW which is still a pretty versatile keyboard for the price. Put out a module or 2-MZ-x, XWs or something similar in a modular desktop version, for people who already have too many keyboards (I wonder who I am talking about?)

[anotherscott]

8 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

For constant playing- much sturdier keybed is needed than the MZs, CTXs, the XW etc. unless you are only covering pads and other parts not needing much piano-stylistic playing

 

Piano-style playing is problematic on any non hammer board, so I don't see this as an MZ-X500 specific issue. Honestly, when it comes to 61-key boards, I prefer the action of the MZ-X500 to the Juno/FA or Kross/Krome, because it is not so quickly uneven in its response from the front of the key to the back. That's one more reason I'd take the MZ-X500 over the Krome 61 or FA-06.

 

As for hammer action 7x-key boards, yes, actually there are quite a few, but they tend to be higher end (read, more expensive) boards, geared more specifically to gigging musicians. A  low-cost model would be the Yamaha P-121, but other than that, Korg makes 73-key hammer action versions of the SV1, Grandstage, and Kronos; Kurzweil makes the Forte 7; Nord makes 7x-key versions of the Electro 6 and the Nord Stage 3; and Yamaha just announced the CP73.

ETA: Dexibell also makes some hammer action 73s.

Edited January 21, 2019 by anotherscott

[Chas]

On 1/20/2019 at 10:48 PM, oscar1 said:

Casio tried many times to build a higher keyboard. There was a MZ-2000 if anyone remembers which was aftertouch workstation with everything thrown in it, yet still looked like a darn embarasing home keyboard. There were the XW synths. But they always mess it up at the end by  cheapening some crucial part and having the kids-derived plastic keybeds. So maybe they should abandond the mid market altogether and stay in what they do well.

 

I have to disagree about the MZ2000. I love the way it looks, like something out of a space craft navigation deck. Very far from a home keyboard. Very well built too, and the keyboard feels great to me also. I am also more than happy with my XW's also, though agree with those that  say the keybed doesn't feel as good as the MZ2000, but for a synth they feel great. 

 

I should add that I am a "synth player", not a pianist, therefore weighted keys and having 88 keys is not an issue for me personally.

[sslyutov]

On 1/21/2019 at 6:36 AM, Jokeyman123 said:

For constant playing- much sturdier keybed is needed than the MZs, CTXs, the XW etc. unless you are only covering pads and other parts not needing much piano-stylistic playing,  based on older equipment I've used professionally that took alot of playing to start having problems. As far as weighted 76-keys, the Ensoniqs ran all of these with Fatar weighted sctions-still have my TS-12 and it weighs a ton, and the action is not as responsive as the Casio 88-key PX560 and 350 I play regularly-not terrible but the weight was awful-the TS12 weighs 55 pounds! As did the KT-76, KS-32 and MR76-carried the MR and KS around alot also 50 pounds but great keyboards for the time. And yes anotherscott, if i were looking for my first (or second) 61-key instrument the MZ-X would have looked much better, Roland spring keys are not all good-the RS70 was awful and the EXR keybed was pretty nice but the Rolands are always pretty costly-you would need 2 Rolands to cover the MZ-X I think, maybe 3! 

 

 Would there be a 76-key weighted action market-tough call, in a crowded market, especially since playing out pro, the 88-key Casios and others are easier to carry than many others already but there are no 76-weighted keyboards currently that I know of, could be something out there. I think Studiologic had one only as a controller, don't see that even any more. I can't see many selling unless the features were pretty outrageous compared to PX560, 5s and other brand 88-keys. Would be nice, but for players like me who already have invested in the 88-key versions, would have to go some with features to add another keyboard, certainly would never be a replacement for me unless there were huge additions to functions.  And the MZ-x prices did put me off, 800 is about as low as I can get here in the US. But then I have the XW.  Not much less than the PX560 and several hundred more than a new XW which is still a pretty versatile keyboard for the price. Put out a module or 2-MZ-x, XWs or something similar in a modular desktop version, for people who already have too many keyboards (I wonder who I am talking about?)

I would try MZ 61 if it would have weighted keys (actually I am looking for 61 real piano keys keyboard) The only option still RD64
Talking about FA - it has 6 sound engines, humongous list of parameters, an extremely advanced sequencer editor, sampler built based on SP-404, 2000 sounds, axial download, 100% compatibility with Integra 7, great keyboard, etc. It is a piece of art (which I have traded in any way)