Piano sounds not based on factory?

[McMick]

I love a lot of things about this keyboard, but I am NOT a fan of the piano sound. It sounds fake and synthetic and the sustain is all wrong. The stereo separation is also pretty extreme in my headphones. I'd like it to have a different piano sound entirely. Is there any way to do this? Ideally I'd like it to sound like a Yamaha or a Roland. Can this be achieved, or are there technical limitations? I've tried a few stage settings I've found here, and while improved for sure, they are still obviously based on the miserable factory piano sound. If it weren't for the great electric piano sounds it comes with I'd honestly have traded this for something else by now. Sorry to sound so complain-y.

[Tom Williams]

Well, that's a first.

 

You know, when the discussion starts with "fake," "synthetic," "all wrong," and "miserable," you're not encouraging readers of this forum to jump in and help you.  We may be worried  about your public evaluation of our own efforts.   I personally like the PX-5S pianos better than any Roland or Yamaha that I have heard (so far), and I even find it more playable and inspiring than my Kurzweils, but that doesn't mean the other instruments are bad -- just that I have preferences.

 

On to your question: Do you have any synth programming chops?  The PX-5S has two programming approaches that you can dig into:

• Tones, which are largely predefined in terms of envelope and timbre, but thus a good starting place for quick voice customization; and
• Hex Layers, which are wave-based six-oscillator voices with a little more granularity (thus more complexity / difficulty) in their programming features.

Bearing in mind that the PX-5S is primarily intended as a stage piano with synth/controller features, it does have unusually deep access to its voice architecture.

[McMick]

OK, I see your point. Sorry for any offense. This is just my opinion. I wouldn't criticize a user this way, but you know something? I paid good money for this keyboard, so I have a right to criticize it. This keyboard has a lot of great stuff on it, like I said I love a lot of things about it. But I've played a good number of pianos in my life and none of them sound like the Casio's piano, including Steinway. Roland makes a real piano sound; Yamaha too. Not so much Casio. The rolloff on the sustain is pretty quick, even though the note will thinly sustain after that. Sounds weird. And the piano sound itself just doesn't sound good. The stereo separation in headphones is so wide that I feel like my keyboard is ten feet long. Although I should add that the user-edited ones I've loaded don't all suffer from that. Isn't the factory sound supposed to be sampled from a real Steinway? If so, it's like no Steinway I've ever heard.

 

Mind you, I do have some peeves about other keyboards. Yamaha has used the same piano sound for decades now. It seems to me like this far into it, nearly 30 years later and everything, there should be hundreds, if not thousands of digitally sampled pianos available, to give at least a partial representation of the many thousands of piano manufacturers and models. Instead the companies just seem to stick with a handful. Maybe it's super-duper hard to make an accurate digital representation of a real acoustic piano, but man I wish they would try.
 

I was sort of hoping some wizard would tell me how to extract the data from another digital piano and convert it to work on the Casio. I mean, it's digital so in theory at least, it should be possible, right? Maybe what I need to do is just hook up to a PC and use samples on that instead. Wish me luck.

[Brad Saucier]

On 11/6/2019 at 5:42 AM, McMick said:

But I've played a good number of pianos in my life and none of them sound like the Casio's piano, including Steinway

 

There are many different variations of real pianos, even under the same maker.  Each one has a unique sound.  The way a piano is recorded can add even more variation to the sound.  I can assure you the Casio Privia line sounds very much like the real piano they sampled.  Yes, it's a certain 9 foot Steinway concert grand.  

[McMick]

Roland's piano is also based off a Steinway, but I guess it must be a different one because it definitely sounds different than the Casio. Don't get me wrong, I like this instrument fine, I just don't feel the piano sound is to my liking. Maybe that's how I should have said it instead of talking about why that is, for the sake of forum decorum (TM). As I've said the electric piano sounds are great and the user-tweaked ones are too, and the Hammond organ sounds are right on as well. There's a lot going for this keyboard, I just wish I could replace the piano with another digitally sampled piano. All the user-made stage settings I've tried so far seem to be based on the factory piano sound. I haven't tried all the user-made stuff yet, though. And I certainly haven't tried editing the sounds myself. This will change in the future at some point, but I just don't have the time right now to go through it all.

[Brad Saucier]

It's not possible to replace the factory samples on the PX-5S.  We edit the factory samples when creating new sounds.  Some of the editing tools are powerful enough to alter the original timbre of samples.  Keep going through our downloads section for new pianos, particularly those from Mike Martin.  His latest Noire Grand has been very popular.  It sounds great. 

[Mike Martin]

I'd recommend you try some of these two downloadable piano presets:
 

 

 

 

 

[McMick]

Thanks for the help, sorry to have broken any protocols. There are a thousand things to learn on this keyboard but ATM I am only interested in playing it, not editing. The user-made stage settings are a really valuable addition to this instrument, I must say!

[Brad Saucier]

Are you monitoring primarily with headphones?  What model are they?  or speakers?

[McMick]

4 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

Are you monitoring primarily with headphones?  What model are they?  or speakers?

 

Currently I have some cheapy headphones and a cheapy guitar amp to use for this. I understand that I'm not hearing the sound all nice and equalized, etc. and especially with the cheap guitar amp I get a lot of mid-range frequencies that just stick out. The headphones are OK but they cut off on the higher frequencies somewhat. I'd estimate they're good to around 12kHz then things get dicey from there.

 

I installed a really nice stage setting called Steinway D from Andre Lever which helps it sound much more to my ear like a proper piano. I still want to mess with the decay and sustain, though. Someday hopefully I'll understand how to do that.

[raymb1]

No wonder the piano sounds crappy.  You need to run through a quality amp or headphones.

[McMick]

Ideally I'd like it to pass through a graphic EQ and on to the amp. Someone at a music store told me I could use a PA system for amp/speakers as a cheaper alternative to a stage piano amp or whatever. But at this time I don't plan on spending money on any of that stuff just yet. I haven't played for 10 years, so I'm happy enough to get it hooked to a PC for recording and just use some sound editing app to layer stuff together into something resembling music.

[Andre Lever]

You have a 7 band EQ inside the PX5S!

The Grand sound is the best, I have two Hamburg Steinway D I can play every day, also a Kawai CA98 and I owned a Nord Piano, Roland RD 2000, Kawai CS10, MP11SE, Korg Kronos, Yamaha P100, 150, 200, 250, 515, a Dexibell expander and a Korg Grandstage. And some I forgot.

Guess what sounds the best compared two those Steinways?

Yes! Please learn how to tweak the sounds and download the various altered grands on the download site ( I made a few myself, for my taste)

Buy yourself a good headphone Beyer 880 or Sennheiser 650, and good monitors: Presonus Eris 5 for example (they don´t have that dead mids)!!!!!!!!!

[Joe Muscara]

Of all the sounds in the PX-5S that are sensitive to the way you listen, the acoustic piano is the most (true for all brands of keyboards). This kind of sound is best when put through something pure and flat. Nearly every other sound (electric pianos, guitars, organs, horns, etc.)  is often run through a narrow amp like a guitar amp, or is a narrow sound itself. Acoustic piano demands much more. Give it a chance.

[Jokeyman123]

A guitar amp would be my last choice for putting any keyboards through. A guitar amp input is so far off electronically from what a typical keyboard needs, I'm surprised it works at all-must sound like an old transistor radio. I too have learned on Steinways, played and owned Clavinovas, Kurzweils, the Roland stage pianos, Ensoniq Perfect Piano and Generalmusic piano/synth workstations. I did an exhaustive sound comparison of all the new digital pianos awhile ago, and posted it here somewhere-Nord, Kawai, Roland, Kurzweil, Casio. Alesis-every company that makes a stage piano was in this comparison. I listened for hours to each- and bought a Privia PX-I have 2-the PX350 and the 560-same sound samples as the PX5s. Through my pro monitor headphones or my sound system, nothing sounds better. I would not hesitate to use these in a pro environment. You've got to get better sound monitoring equipment, otherwise you will never know what the PX5s really sounds like, for any of the tones, piano or not. 

[Joe Muscara]

A Wurly (Wurlitzer electric piano aka "'60s EPiano" or similar) sounds great through a guitar amp, giving it lots of tone. I think people run Rhodes through them too. Of course, if your keyboard has an amp sim to do that like some of the tones on various Casios, you don't need to.

[Brad Saucier]

6 hours ago, Andre Lever said:

You have a 7 band EQ inside the PX5S!

 

Yes, this.  You have a 4 band semi-parametric master EQ.  Insert effects, DSP EQ, can add 3 more semi-parametric bands to each tone/zone.   

 

I would start off with a good pair of headphones.  I've been meaning to get another pair myself.  Sony MDR-7506 is on my shopping list, maybe for Christmas!  🎅

[McMick]

I was just reading through the other piano sounds thread and I see that there is a divide here as to whether this keyboard's stock piano sound is right or not. I think it may come down to what people like to listen to. Perhaps people are right and this is an accurate recreation of a particular model of Steinway. Maybe those folks love listening to Liberace play Chopin or whoever. Most of the music I've grown up with was pop and rock music, so in most cases probably not involving a 9-foot Steinway grand piano. I suppose most pop bands would travel with something more portable. This could probably account for why some folks here think the PX-5s piano sound is the best and why I don't. I like the sounds of spinets or uprights or baby grands better. To me they sound more like what I think a piano should sound like.

 

What my solution will be is that I'll use MIDI and a PC to get other piano sounds for this keyboard. Now I just have to figure out how to do that.

 

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry to ruffle any feathers. To end with a positive note, I have to say the electric piano sounds on this keyboard are top notch, and the action is even similar to my old Mark I. I still have a Seventy-Three and I used to own a Wurlitzer 200a, and even out of my awful headphones and guitar amp the electric piano sounds on the PX-5s are really great.

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

Have you tried all of the downloadable piano sounds?  

[McMick]

2 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

Have you tried all of the downloadable piano sounds?  

 

I've tried a few but nowhere near all. Honestly it's partially due to the fact that my eyesight isn't what it used to be and poring over the display and buttons on this keyboard isn't fun for me. I have the software on my laptop but the interface doesn't scale up, so that's sort of difficult to read as well. In general this is why I haven't bothered yet to buckle down and learn how to do all of the stuff this keyboard is capable of. The other night I was literally thinking about hiring an expert who knows this keyboard to come and train me just to make things easier. I'm not very experienced on digital musical instruments.

[raymb1]

I run my Px5s through a CPS Spacestation V3.  The Concert Grand sound is awesome.  3D sound.  I also use a small mixer.

[Andre Lever]

13 hours ago, McMick said:

Perhaps people are right and this is an accurate recreation of a particular model of Steinway. Maybe those folks love listening to Liberace play Chopin or whoever.

 

??

A rose is a rose is a rose

[Jokeyman123]

Just put your Casio trough a crappy cheap guitar amp-it might sound more like the crappy upright acoustics i had to play for a living-glad those days are over. with a little programming, you could probably get this pristine grand piano sound to sound like  a smaller spinet or upright. Try combining one of the yamaha CP style acoustic pianos with the grand-those tended to sound a little more "tinny" or "jangly". The Steinway is a beautifully full sounding instrument definitely suited for classical, romantic period playing, was originally designed for that.  Maybe you need to think about the PX560-the large color screen definitely helps to see what is happening. You might still get 500-600 or more for the PX5s if you decide to trade to a 560. many of the same sounds, but easier to move around the menu options. it is still a little pricier than the PX5s, but I love mine and I play all styles on it. I favor the more "cutting" tones for fast jazz or rock playing, but then there are specific tones in the PX's for that too. 

[XW-Addict]

Hahahaha me and my bag of mixed exotic fruit nuts and beer enjoying to read this post. Its so lively. 

[bob green]

Back in the 80's I lived in and around Atlanta and at one of the more upscale shopping malls there was a Steinway store. The guy that managed the place didn't mind me coming in from time to time and playing the pianos. What I was most struck by (other than the price tags) was how very different each one sounded to the others, even pianos of the same model. When I started down the rabbit hole of searching for a piano via hardware and software, I realized I was not searching for A piano, I was searching for THE piano. I also realized that this was a fool's pursuit, because so many factors were at play, ie, the sample itself, the speakers used for playback, the room, etc, etc, and at a certain point kind of abandoned the quest. It may be the OP is searching for THE piano, and is not finding it in the Px5S's sample set. Ultimately an offering from Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil, Nord, etc. may better fill the bill. For myself, the Px5S's piano sample, with appropriate EQ, velocity and attack tweaks, gets me about 90% of what I want in most gigging and studio situations. I especially appreciate how adjustable "on the fly" all these factors are in the Casio, which allows me to make adjustments situationally without a lot of menu diving. Good enough for this guy, especially given the $$$....IMO fabulous bang for the buck, but everyone's mileage is going to vary......