Touch Screen Goes Black

[Back on Board]

Hi, I have a 4 yr old 560 that has started having a touch screen problem. While playing the screen will go black though the board is still playable. A reboot usually brings the screen back but occasionally it takes a couple of tries - Very annoying when it happens during a gig. Has anyone else encountered this and if so what did you do about it?

[AndrewL]

Never happened to me, but just a shot in the dark: check the AC adaptor. I think a bad one could cause that.

[Jokeyman123]

Could be-a simple boot failure-a glitch in the operating system which fails to boot up the screen. There is always the factory restore option-if you back up any of your user programs, tones, multitracks, rhythms first, might be that simple. If that doesn't work.......

 

I don't exactly remember how the touchscreen is connected inside-but if you are not under warranty and willing to remove the top, or have a good tech around that can do it for you-you will at least be able to check the connecting harnesses to the screen-make sure all the cables are secure-in time cables can come loose. Hopefully the screen isn't failing-I don't think it is-most screens like this will show signs of deterioration before these completely blank out-faded backlight, non-responsive touchscreen, jumbled characters on the screen might show up first. I have pictures here somewhere showing the top panel internals from my PX560. if you shine a light into the touchscreen-can you see any part of the menu when it is black? This would mean 1) this is a backlit panel and the backlight is dead or 2) if you see nothing-means the lighting is integral to the panel, not a backlight but a full electroluminescent panel which-if all else is good, the entire panel or peripheral components will have to be repaired or replaced.  Without a schematic, I am guessing-depending on the design-often there is a discrete individual "driver" IC that provides logic to the LCD panel for character generation-and again depending upon Casio design-a driver circuit for powering the screen lighting, backlit or otherwise.

[Back on Board]

Thanks for the input from both of you. A little more on the problem, the screen works fine on bootup but blanks out after a while at varying intervals, then after a reboot is back to normal. Interestingly, the controls still work after it goes dark - you can change settings using the screen, you just can't see what you're doing. There have been no instances of a jumbled, partial or faded display or any other unusual behavior, the screen just goes black. I saw that I was not on the latest firmware so updated that but it didn't make a difference. I have a current backup of the settings so the next step would be to try a factory reset. I'll add a post after giving that a try.

[Brad Saucier]

The screen goes dark?  No glow whatsoever?  That sounds like the LCD backlight is faulty.  If that's the case, it's time for a technician.  

[Jokeyman123]

Here are a few of my 560 pics inside-you can see a variety of cables connected to the LCD board-any of these, if not seated quite right-could be causing the problem. Temperature might be a factor-as you say it can happen after working for awhile-the 560 doesn't run hot inside, but there could be something that is expanding and contracting with even slight temperature difference, that could be causing a connection fault, especially if the screen light source gets warm over time-I'd have to take mine apart again to check this. And yes, most screens can fail without crippling the keyboard.

 

https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/14890-px560-internal-pics-beware/&tab=comments#comment-45559

 

[Joe Muscara]

9 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

The screen goes dark?  No glow whatsoever?  That sounds like the LCD backlight is faulty.  If that's the case, it's time for a technician.  

If the backlight is bad or out, you may be able to see the screen by shining a light on it. I have never tried that with a keyboard display, but I have seen it work on an old G4 iMac. If that is the case, you could bring a flashlight with you until you get it fixed.

[Back on Board]

I've done IT work in a previous life and a system restore is a go to tool that can resolve a lot of odd problems so I did a factory reset this morning and MAYBE that did the trick. Disabled auto shutoff and have had the board up for 5 hours, playing and operating controls at various times as well as leaving it idle for a couple of hours (the screen occasionally blacked out even when not being played) with no problems. I have a practice tonight that will give it a workout so that should show me if it's back to normal, hoping for the best. 

 

Off topic but one other little glitch I've encountered. When setting up a split with EP008 as lower 1 and any other tone as upper 1 (I was initially trying Reed004 to set up for Bob Seger's "Turn the Page"), the EP loses the vibrato.  Reverse the tones and the EP plays as it should. 

 

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions. I signed up for this forum when I bought the board and though this thread is the first time I've posted I've gotten good info from reading many of the posts in the past and appreciate the posters sharing their knowledge and experiences.

[Jokeyman123]

Not a glitch-its a limitation of the way the DSP effects are allocated I think although I'm surprised the vibrato gets cancelled out-since I thought that would be incorporated into the tone regardless of the external DSP processing routes. I'll try it, see what i come up with.

 

I did try it and it does strip out the vibrato. Tried with the midi recorder-unless i record the EP in the system track-it will strip out the vibrato when recording other tracks, again a limitation of what the 560 does with DSP effects-although chorus, reverb and delay can be added since these are "global" with at least the midi recorder. i had to remember this when I did a cover of Telstar with the 560-unless I kept the organ tone recorded in the first track or system track-the leslie effect would not carry over in other tracks recorded subsequently, but i was able to control individual reverb sends for each track, and adding some chorus to other organ tracks helped.

 

If you look at pages 15-18 in the manual, it describes how with splits, layers, duet mode-DSP is disabled in the 2nd (layered,split duet) tone.  One of the more confusing aspects of the 560 (and many other workstations IMO). even the DSP routing chart at the end of the manual, although this does show how DSP is being routed through all possibilities, still tricky to work out. Appparently it appears that even with tones that have a DSP effect "built into" the tone-that DSP is cancelled if used as the secondary voice-the voice "once-removed" from the main voice.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Jokeyman123

[Jokeyman123]

Maybe you're right-maybe it is a "glitch". I have just tried split, duet and layer mode with a variety of tones with DSP built into the factory tones, and it is even more confusing. I think it must depend upon the effect that is being used-for example when using overdrive org1-in both split, layered or duet mode-the distortion effect is carried over in both! I can only guess that certain tones have a DSP 'built-in" as part of their base samples, while others are programmed with the DSP as a separate effect-and these are the tones that will not carry over that effect when used in the secondary split/layer/duet voice. The rotary organ factory tones sound the same in any dual-mode. But if I  add a DSP rotary effect as an edited tone and save it (which i've done for several of my organ tones) the added rotating effect does not carry over, and does not carry over when recording additional midi tracks beyond the 1st or system track. Pity the poor studio engineer who had to control all this, with a 128 track Neve console-and a bunch of (maybe not quite so patient) studio musicians waiting to get home for a cup of tea.

[Back on Board]

Jokeyman, thanks for looking at this. Apparently it's just one of those things one has to experiment with to see what works and using that to accomplish what you're trying to do - in my case I'll be playing the sax solo part with my left hand and accompaniment with the right, a little counterintuitive but doable.

 

But the good news is I had a 3 hr practice session with NO screen blackouts! Have a gig tomorrow night with a blues band and if it holds up through that I think that it's fixed.

[Jokeyman123]

Strange comparison-but I have a Thinkpad laptop-T420-that does the same thing, which is why I suspected a possible PX560 bootup fault, and i've never experienced this-I have no idea why this laptop does this-i troubleshoot computers and this could be a variety of causes which I can't determine yet, form a hardware fault to a software fault. Very peculiar and is always restored by rebooting. very odd but i think it has something to do with the power programs which are conflicting-Lenovo has their software for controlling power options (screen off time, hibernation options etc. and so does Microsoft which i think is the problem, not the first time a software conflict has caused a computer shutdown. but with the PX560-check the screen brightness setting in the menu options-I keep mine at the brightest-12/13 most of the time. since this is a software control-could be a simple glitch in the routine that lets you control the backlight brightness, or the setting for auto resume could be causing this glitch to be retained-like a computer's OS which if there is a fault, a cold boot can correct the problem, but a warm boot (if it goes into sleep or hibernation mode) will not fix the software glitch.

One PS here-if your screen goes out of calibration (mine never did but one user had that problem) there is a re-calibration mode that can fix it. It is posted somewhere here if you need to do it. And  I love this touchscreen and menu system. There are several major boards that have color screens now, but cost a thousand or so more, and most are at least twice as heavy for the 88 key versions. something i think about every time i am tempted to go for something like a Kronos, Montage, Fantom X/FA etc.

[Back on Board]

I'm pleased to report that last night's gig went off without a hitch, board performed without any unexpected behavior. It appears that executing the factory reset in the system settings corrected the problem so I'm going to mark this as a solution. Just a reminder, back up your settings before doing a reset or you will not be able to reload any customization and saved registrations.

 

Jokeyman - I've been very pleased with my board as well and I don't think any other keyboard offers as much bang for the buck. Price was a real consideration for me at the time I bought it as I had just started playing out again after decades of not (hence my screen name "Back on Board") - and regrettably not playing my acoustic much at all for far too long - and I didn't know if it was going to last. I had picked up an inexpensive used "semi-weighted" board just to have something to play out on but it quickly proved inadequate so after some research and testing I bought the 560 and am glad I did. Things took off more than expected since then which was the kick I needed to get some of my chops back and the board has proved more than up to the task of helping me get there. 

[Back on Board]

Well I'm sorry to report that the "fix" didn't hold, I'm back to a blank screen. It was apparently coincidence that it worked for a short while. Now every time I boot there is a very brief flicker of light, then nothing. The Casio support site listed 2 service centers within 40 min of me but one is out of business and the other no longer does repairs so the closest repair option is a 4 hr round trip and their turnaround time is 2-3 weeks. I talked to a service rep there and they can get a replacement touch screen but it's quite expensive so along with their minimum service charge and travel costs I'm looking at nearly half of what I paid for the board when new so I'm debating the value of repairing the board. There may be a possibility that the light source that illuminates the screen can be replaced independently but I haven't gotten a definite answer on that as of yet.

[Back on Board]

Update

 

I've been going back and forth with a Casio support center trying to get answers on what can be done and the situation has gone from bad to worse. The touch screen would have to be replaced with the part and labor amounting to about 1/3rd of the cost of the board - expensive but doable. BUT, according the the service center Casio made a production change in the 560 after I purchased my board and the current touch screens are not compatible with the older circuitry. They say they cannot get a replacement for the original touch screen and in order to use the newer version the main circuit board would have to be replaced as well. This puts the cost of repair very near the cost of a new keyboard. It looks as if I now have an 88 key boat anchor. 

 

I'm VERY dismayed at the situation. It's disappointing that apparently Casio doesn't have parts in stock to keep these boards in use. Were it a $300 board I could understand getting less life from it (though my older Casio WK6500 is still going strong) but at the level of the 560 I would expect better.

[AndrewL]

Oh, that's so bad... I wonder if the touch screen itself exists in the market and can be obtained and replaced independently, like getting the exact brand and model. I'd say it's not actually made by Casio but by a 3rd party, right? Did you by chance look for broken PX-560M, PX-360M, MZ-X500 or MZ-X300? I think it's the same screen for all models.

[Back on Board]

Good News!

My 560 has been repaired. Failing to get much help from an authorized service center I contacted Casio USA directly. After much discussion and trying various things they sent me a used touchscreen compatible with the older main circuit board in my unit which I installed, but it didn't work either which showed the problem was in the main PCB. So they requested I send  the upper portion of the keyboard containing the electronics to their headquarters in NJ giving me a Very Reasonable estimate for the repair.

 

I disconnected the upper section from the keybed which required disconnecting 5 wire plugs but fortunately no soldered connections and shipped it to Casio. They turned it around in a week, replacing both the main PCB and the touchscreen to the newest versions, and shipped it back, holding true to their estimate. I carefully reassembled the unit, held my breath, powered up, and everything worked!

 

One minor glitch, when I started to play I found to my dismay that all the tones were modulating, as if the modulation wheel was fully on (which it wasn't). I had labeled the 5 wire connectors ABCDE as I removed them, writing ABCDE on the inside of the case by the corresponding socket so I was sure I had put the plugs back in the original order. Then I noticed the connectors coming from the pitch/bend and the modulation wheel were identical. I had a hunch, reversed the connections and to my relief that solved the problem. I reported my experience back to Casio and they confirmed that when the main PCB was revised from Version C to Version D the socket positions were switched. 

 

So I am "Back on Board" with my 560, thanks to the service I got from Casio USA. They were responsive and helpful when troubleshooting and provided me with a very affordable and cost effective repair. 

[AndrewL]

Wow, that was really cool. I'm surprised they allowed or "encouraged" you to disassemble and send inner parts. So happy it's working now!

Just make sure the screen is calibrated. If the touch detection is a bit off, look for screen calibration in the forums.

[Bramley Studio]

That's impressive - both for Casio service and for your detective work! 👏👏👏

[Back on Board]

AndrewL, thanks for the tip on screen calibration. Some of the controls were slightly off and recalibrating put everything right. Four gigs in with the repaired board now and nary a glitch (knocking furiously on wood...)