Grand piano/Mellow piano

[fcw3]

I’m having same problem. Brand new px s3000, grand piano sounds dull and muted. Am familiar with grand and upright acoustics, know what they sound and feel like, have done a few factory resets, no change. 

[Gr3yWolf]

Hi fcw3 (I also sent you a message with this reply)

 

Sorry to hear you also are having this issue, seems this is not just an isolated problem, out of curiosity what firmware version is yours? My original one was 0103. I did get a replacement which sounds 'better', although it isnt perfect and still doesnt sound as good as the videos on youtube, still sounding a bit dull/muted in my opinion. To be honest i just cant be bothered keep getting replacements hoping i get one that sounds as advertised. Also i noticed that this replacement is a newer firmware version 0104. Other people who have had no issues with sound have had version 0102 and lower, so maybe its an issue with later firmware versions.

 

So no, unfortunately the replacement didnt sound as expected, but did sound a bit better, a bit less dull, but still far from advertised by Casio on their youtube videos.

 

Hope this helps, and hope the new one you get will solve the issue for you. Good luck.

 

All the best.

 

[kybdsammer]

@Gr3yWolf and @fcw3 - I am sorry to hear you have not been satisfied with the piano sounds.  I am at a loss of why you are experiencing this.  Have you tried editing any of the factory piano tone settings to see if you can modify it more to your liking?  I know some people prefer a softer, mellower piano sound, but some prefer a "more vibrant" piano sound like me.  When I first got my keyboard, the default grand piano tone was good but also seemed a bit quiet and soft for my taste.  However, the nice thing about the PX-S3000 is you can modify several parameters and then save it as a registration.  I was able to do this and create several piano registrations that I really like and are more suitable to my taste and playing style.  In my opinion, the piano sound on this keyboard is one of the best out there, and I really hope you can fully experience and enjoy it as I have.

 

@Gr3yWolf - Is the hiss through the headphone jack gone with your new unit?  Interesting comment about the firmware differences.  I wouldn't think this would be a factor in the piano sounds, but I don't know what the differences are compared to 0102.  I have sent firmware questions to Casio USA in the past and will ask them about this.

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

I wish there was a way to demonstrate this issue for us on the forum.  Unfortunately the audio clips posted earlier sound totally normal to me.  These pianos have a wide dynamic range.  Soft/slow playing will give a softer mellow sound while heavy/fast playing will lead to brighter crisp sound.  Some players have a difficult time reaching the fastest/heavy range of sound.  The best thing to do in this case is set the touch response to the lightest setting and choose one of the brighter preset piano tones.  You can also change the brilliance effect for a brighter tone.  Also, when comparing YouTube demos to your own piano, make sure the YouTube video is an official one from Casio and that you're using the same speakers or headphones for listening to each one, for an apples to apples comparison.

[Bobbo]

I kind of hate to suggest this, but is it possible that some high frequency hearing loss is a factor ?

 

[Gr3yWolf]

@kybdsammer Yes i too am mystified as to why i and others are having this issue. As for the hiss through the headphone jacks is still present, just a bit less so on the replacement unit. I am a bit perplexed about the number of different firmware versions, thats at least 4 different versions now; 0101, 0102, 0103 and now 0104, why are there so many? According to Casio there are no firmware updates, but yet there are 4 different ones...(?), i dont get it.

 

@Brad Saucier I too wish there was a way for me to capture what i am hearing then i could share it. I appreciate that some people play softer than others and that playing softer will mean a softer more mellow tone. I am used to playing on a Yamaha p515 which has a very heavy key action, so the PX-S3000 is no problem. I have seen/heard many demos on youtube and all sound about the same as the official Casio demos, but none sound like my unit - my unit sounding dull by comparison (though as stated previously; the replacement is an improvement, though not by much). The youtube demos sound both not too mellow and not too bright, just a nice balance between the two. The bright piano preset is too bright for my liking, and the mellow piano sounds pretty much the same as the standard piano 001, which makes me wonder what the point in having the 2 different presets is when they sound the same, but again maybe its just my unit, although that is 2 different units now ive had with this issue, so unfortunately not an isolated incident. And yes i am using the same headphones each time.

 

@Bobbo Its possible i may have some higher frequency hearing loss (though not sure), but this wouldnt be the reason else the Youtube videos/demos would also be dull/mellower sounding - basically there would be no difference; they would sound the same if it was just a hearing loss issue.

 

Thanks everyone for the replies.

[fcw3]

Thanks for your responses, so I just got my 2nd new privia 3000 of the week--little to no change in the piano sound. One clue that might help figure this out-the grand piano sound on the privia sounds like what my acoustic piano sounds like when the Soft (far left) pedal is down; I do not have any pedal attached to the privia. The overall volume of the privia is also not what I was expecting-it sounds normal (using the onboard speakers) turned up to about 2 o'clock (or more) . I had spoken to a professional musician who owns a px s3000 before buying mine, and he said that he's been playing restaurants (pre-covid) with no amp and it's plenty loud at 2 o'clock (the room I have my privia in is nowhere approaching restaurant size). 

 

Unfortunately I'm going out of town in a day-when I get back I'll try and figure out how to record and post what it sounds like. Any thoughts in the meantime would be much appreciated (also, not sure where to look for firmware #-although I suspect mine are the newer versions as they were just purchased from sweetwater who probably move a lot of merchandise). 

 

[Gr3yWolf]

Sorry to hear that you too had no luck with the replacement. But yes, about the soft pedal (far left), now you mention it it does sound like that in a way - i am wondering if there is an issue internally that is registering this as being pressed when the 3 pedal unit is not present...? Maybe not, but also maybe possible.

 

To find your firmware version - Hold Function, then press left and press enter on System, press left again and press enter on version - the version will be displayed as 4 numbers e.g 0104. Hope this helps.

[fcw3]

Mine is version 0104. 

Also wondering about volume level. I need to have my volume turned up to about 2:30 when using the grand piano to replicate the volume level of my acoustic upright (my acoustic is against a wall). This holds true both for using the onboard speakers as well as decent headphones (Sony studio professional). Is this normal? (seems like some of the organ sounds are quite loud, but not the pianos). 

[Gr3yWolf]

Yeh that is also my experience, piano volume seems very low compared to other sounds (especially organs) requiring turning the volume knob up, certainly past the 12 o'clock position. I am still curious about all the seemingly different firmware versions and if that has anything to do with the sound issue particularly with piano.

[Brad Saucier]

It is dynamic range, the difference between the quietest sound and the loudest sound it can produce.  High dynamic range from a velocity sensitive piano tone will have a lower average sound pressure level than a narrow dynamic range source like the non-velocity sensitive organ tones. The concert grand tones on Casio digital pianos are the widest dynamic range tones.  If you were to hold down the sustain pedal on a piano tone and pound out the largest and loudest passage of music you can muster, the level would get quite loud.  

[kybdsammer]

Regarding the firmware, here is the response I got from Casio America, Inc.:

 

"There are no firmware updates for the PX-S3000. Since there are no updates available, there is no information provided regarding any functional changes provided by the firmware. It is possible that these are minor changes, possibly related to internal hardware differences, and not providing any noticeable difference in performance or functionality."

[Jokeyman123]

Post retracted.

[fcw3]

I bought my s3000 from Sweetwater (usa based company as far as I can tell). 

[Jokeyman123]

post retracted.

[Gr3yWolf]

@Jokeyman123

 

 

I bought mine in the UK

 

I have had 2 PX-S3000's, the second being a replacement as i was not hearing the same sound/tones generation that i was hearing from the official and other video demos, instead sounding very dull/muddy and nothing like the demos - the replacement was not much of an improvement tbh...

 

The first one was firmware version 0103, the replacement (approx 1-2 weeks later) was version 0104, both from the same supplier (MusicRoom.com). I thought it very odd that in such a short amount of time the firmware version could have had yet another update. As far as i can tell there at least 4 different firmware versions - 0101, 0102, 0103 & 0104, which is even more strange when you consider that Casio is (supposedly) not aware of ANY firmware updates, so i too think something odd is going on here, i mean how can there be so many different firmware versions while the company that makes them has no knowledge of such updates?

 

I see 2 possibilities:

 

Either someone really IS altering things without Casio's knowledge, although to what end i dont know, or...

 

There is a known issue with the PX-S3000 (possibly the 1000 too (?)) and Casio is attempting to cover it up/ fix it with secretive firmware updates. If Casio were to come out and admit to there being an issue then that would have a negative impact on sales... But perhaps what they have failed to realise is that eventually (like now) people will catch on and discover all the different firmware versions being so quickly put out and thus realise something must be going on, or perhaps they had thought about this and came to the conclusion that the general public would most likely remain unaware thus keeping losses to an absolute minimum. Or perhaps i am over thinking this ( i have a tendency to do that).

 

[Jokeyman123]

post retracted.

[Gr3yWolf]

So are you saying that certain 'Casio' products like the PX-S3000 may be fake? Seems a stretch, but i guess not completely impossible, though not sure that would completely explain the at least 4 different firmware versions...

 

But yeh, i hope that Casio do look into this and can provide some sort of explanation. I personally dont buy the response from Casio that user Kybdsammer posted, especially the part about hardware changes, why would the hardware be changed if there was nothing wrong with it to begin with, and if said hardware was changed then why change it if (as according to the reply from Casio) it is "not providing any noticeable difference in performance or functionality."? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Something is definitely not adding up. Hopefully we get a response soon.

[Mike Martin]

There is no difference in sound in any PX-S3000. There are also no counterfeit or black market PX-S3000s out there. Running firmware changes like this are extremely common in every area of the electronics industry. Changes like this are usually to address a minor change in manufacturing, a specific region such as language or text. It is as simple as that.  [/end conspiracy]

[Gartro]

On mine I find 001 noticeably, but only slightly, brighter than 003. But I am using i-Loud speakers.

I also find 001 generally not bright enough for my taste, and I often use 002.

But I have also saved  registrations where I layered 001 with 002 or a stage piano (004) which is very bright. I use layer balance on a knob to mix in a bit of brighter piano with the 001 piano.  

Of course you can always tweak the EQ on 001, which I haven't tried yet.

BTW I have the px-S3000, I don't know if you have the px-S1000, and you might not have access to the features I have.

In any case, there are a lot of pianos in there!

 

[fcw3]

I agree that any kind of conspiracy seems unlikely. However, it does seem that the issue many have noted seems to occur on recently purchased s3000s with the newer firmware. I’m wondering if in fixing something minor with the firmware updates, a change was inadvertently introduced to the default piano settings at least on some units (mine almost sounds like a filter is being applied, or as noted earlier, a soft pedal function is continuously on). I personally have zero interest in trashing Casio-there’s a lot I really like about my Privia, just want to figure out how to get the basic piano (grand and stage) to sound right. 
 

if anyone has any suggestions to minimize or get rid of the soft,muted,muffled sound of the grand, that would be great. I’ve pretty much stuck to factory presets thus far, with the exception of adjusting the keyboard touch .

 

I will attach a recording as soon as I find time to figure that out. ( new to digital instruments, have been banging away on an acoustic and driving family nuts). 

[Gr3yWolf]

@Mike Martin Given the difference in sound i am hearing between the official Youtube demos and the 2 units i have had and using the same headphones, i would say that there is quite a noticeable difference, primarily the grand piano 001 (and also 003), which on the 2 units i have had sound dull and lacking in the 'sparkle' and clarity that the examples presented on the demos have.

 

With regards to any 'fake' or counterfeit units, i was responding to the comment by Jokeyman123. Not saying there is a conspiracy

 

So about the different firmware versions, is Casio aware of these different versions and the reasons for them, or is it at the discretion of the place that is manufacturing them to change it when necessary? I am just not sure why these different version would be being put out so quickly (relatively speaking), would there be changes in manufacturing or language that happen so often and quickly - i am not trying to suggest there is anything going on, just curious is all.

 

@Gartro I too find 001 not bright enough, being far too close to 003 to not really make much of an audible difference. Hadnt considered mixing 2 pianos, i have dont this in the past with other keyboards and the result was giving a strange tone, especially noticeable when hitting the same note consecutively.

 

I have tried altering the EQ for 001 with limited success, in order to get a result i would be more happy with i was need a wider EQ range than the 3 band provided. I am almost sure that i read someone say something about the unit having a much larger EQ but that this is not accessible by the user. Mine is also the PX-S3000, but really i dont think that we should resort to altering things, though i suppose everyones tone preference may be different...

 

Just out of curiosity, how to you think the main piano tone 001 sounds on your unit compared with the official video demos on youtube, do they sound the same or is your unit more dull/lacking in clarity in comparison?

[fcw3]

Definitely more dull and lacking in clarity. 

[Brad Saucier]

@fcw3 @Gr3yWolf  Guys, I'm just curious. Have you owned another digital piano before the PX-S3000?  

[fcw3]

Yes, I own a cheap Yamaha; and have played a high-end Nord several times. I’m very happy with the electric piano and organ sounds on the Privia, and like the feel, look, and functionality of it. It’s just the grand piano sound that’s off.